What We Lose When We Eliminate Controversial Content

[Scribe]

And, we're back to the "don't like it don't read it" line of argument. Thank you for completely sidelining my concerns, treating me as an other and not having a single shred of sympathy.

There is a huge difference between a concern, and picking a work with one of the most clearly flawed views, that plays upon your concern.

You are painting "Playing D&D" as "embracing a racist world view that personally is disgusted in my children" and thats not even a remotely accurate concern.

 

[Hussar]

There is a huge difference between a concern, and picking a work with one of the most clearly flawed views, that plays upon your concern.

You are painting "Playing D&D" as "embracing a racist world view that personally is disgusted in my children" and thats not even a remotely accurate concern.

Not even remotely. That is not even close to what I said.

I said that because Lovecraft is a human trash pile and his writing specifically targets my children with hate, I would prefer to not have his name in the Player's Handbook as part of the Inspirational Reading.

 

[Minion X]

Again, please stick to my very, very SPECIFIC example. I never said Lovecraft should not be printed or read or removed from libraries or anything like that.

I asked for a very, very specific thing. Lovecraft's name being removed from the list of INSPIRATIONAL READING from the PHB. That's the sum total of what I am asking here. Nothing more.

But, it's funny to see how the reactions to asking for a pretty minor thing - can we not celebrate a massive bigot by giving him a prominent place in the history of the game - becomes a huge problem where I might as well be asking to eat puppies.

I objected to comparing Lovecraft to a rapist and a sociopathic child molester and necrophiliac. It is both inappropriate and inaccurate. Besides, Lovecraft does have a prominent place in D&D and the literary genres it draws from, his prejudices do not change that. However, Wizards of the Coast is free to do what they want with the intellectual property they have purchased the rights to and the products they produce, and since they have also made sure to make the original editions of Dungeons & Dragons available there is no reason to complain about their decisions. Everyone can have their cake and eat it.

 

[Scribe]

Not even remotely. That is not even close to what I said.

I said that because Lovecraft is a human trash pile and his writing specifically targets my children with hate, I would prefer to not have his name in the Player's Handbook as part of the Inspirational Reading.

It is what you said, but I missed the line where you said you want him removed. I have no issue with that, but my apologies for missing the line.

 

[Cadence]

Well, this does explain why we are not going to agree here. Including Cosby on a list of inspirational comedians is a non-starter for me. Sorry, serial rapists don't get to go on inspirational lists. Nor do massive bigots who think my children should be killed.

But, I respect your point of view, although I will never agree with it.

Influential (from the post you replied to) and inspirational (in your reply) seem like two very different things?

I completely agree with keeping him off an inspirational reading list (the title of which makes me think folks should be inspired by them). It feels like he would go on an influential one (which influenced the game).

 

[Justice and Rule]

I objected to comparing Lovecraft to a rapist and a sociopathic child molester and necrophiliac. It is both inappropriate and inaccurate. Besides, Lovecraft does have a prominent place in D&D and the literary genres it draws from, his prejudices do not change that. However, Wizards of the Coast is free to do what they want with the intellectual property they have purchased the rights to and the products they produce, and since they have also made sure to make the original editions of Dungeons & Dragons available there is no reason to complain about their decisions. Everyone can have their cake and eat it.

I don't think we need to be completely equitable when it comes to lists of people we do not put down for inspiration. Parsing the levels of terrible people seems to be a huge distraction in general.

 

[Minion X]

I don't think we need to be completely equitable when it comes to lists of people we do not put down for inspiration. Parsing the levels of terrible people seems to be a huge distraction in general.

If people did exercise their brains a bit more and did not make frivolously inappropriate comparisons between people they disagree with over one point or another, and people who commit crimes or outright atrocities, it might go some way to create a less polarized society.

 

[Justice and Rule]

If people did exercise their brains a bit more and did not make frivolously inappropriate comparisons between people they disagree with over one point or another, and people who commit crimes or outright atrocities, it might go some way to create a less polarized society.

This feels like mostly just a distraction of an argument that threatens to drag the thread completely off-topic. If you want to measure who is worse, feel free, but it seems like a meaningless tangent built for another thread.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Tell that to the people who insist that games are poorer for not having it. It certainly sounds like they need to have slavery in their games. Tell that to the people who insist that you can't have Dark Sun without slavery, despite every other thing that sets that world apart.


I didn't claim it was their only motivation. And saying that "by that logic" they should get rid of other things is a completely useless statement, because we're not talking about those other things; we're talking about slavery.


Because RPGs are different from other forms of media because it's not really a form of media. It's a game, not something you passively watch, read, or listen to. It's something you actually do. And maybe companies like WotC don't want to put out rules so the people who play their game can play as a slaver.

Do you think people are likely to play slavers?

 

[Sepulchrave II]

Note that while Lovecraft the author of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion was prejudiced (and very much so), he never actually harmed another human being (at least as far as I am aware)

See how that works?

Each of us bears a responsibility to posterity, in both our words and our actions.

While I am actually rather sympathetic to Lovecraft as a human being - his pathos, his dysfunctional family and inherited mental illness, his inability to form intimate relationships - it does not absolve him of his toxic legacy.

I cannot state with certitude that no act of racial violence could include an early exposure to HPL as a contributing factor. Can you?