What We Lose When We Eliminate Controversial Content

[Hussar]

Somehow, your experiences are vastly different from mine on this.
Also, I was at 2 Gencons during that period so don't need to goggle them to know what the crowds looked like.

Funny how I never once mentioned my experiences. I’m basing this on things like evidence not anecdote.

I’m frankly baffled that this is even controversial at all.

 

[Hussar]

Let me ask you a question that I believe the answer might explain part of the difference in what we have seen.
When you say "the hobby" what do you mean? Are you speaking of the whole of TTRPGs in general or are you speaking of specifically D&D?

Also, if you want some hard numbers Google the 1999 market research data done by Wizards of the Coast.
As much as I am sure it would likely run biased towards D&D players it returned a 19% female player base for TTRPGS in general, in 1999.

So 80% male. Huh. Exactly what I said.

 

[Hussar]

I was off. It's not 18k per day for the party, it was 18k per day per PC over 6-8 encounters. That single fight was 3900xp per PC for a total of 15800x2 for 4 creatures. So 31600. Almost half of the daily budget. That comes to 7900xp per PC which as noted is well above deadly for a 15th level group.

A single of those monsters would be very easy at 3900 divided by 4 or 975 per PC, which is well below the 1250 per PC for an easy 15th level encounter. Two of them would be 11,700 divided by 4. So 2925 each PC and is a moderate encounter. Three of them becomes a hard and almost deadly encounter at 5850 each PC. Four or more of them is in the deadly range.

Ok, maybe I'm a bit off, but, Fantasy Grounds calls this a CR 15 encounter worth 11600 xp which means 2500 (ish) xp per PC, or a moderate encounter. I dunno what to say. I went by the Fantasy Grounds calculations.

 

[Thourne]

So 80% male. Huh. Exactly what I said.

Actually you said both 90% male in one case and virtually none in another. Both of those figures were well off as of 20+ years ago let alone 5 years ago.

 

[Maxperson]

Ok, maybe I'm a bit off, but, Fantasy Grounds calls this a CR 15 encounter worth 11600 xp which means 2500 (ish) xp per PC, or a moderate encounter. I dunno what to say. I went by the Fantasy Grounds calculations.

I'm not sure how they do it, but according to the DMG you total up all the individual monster xp. In this case 3900x4 and get 15,600. Then you multiply according to the table on page 82. For 4 creatures, since they get all get attacks and powers to use, you multiply by 2 and end up with 31,200.

 

[Hussar]

Actually you said both 90% male in one case and virtually none in another. Both of those figures were well off as of 20+ years ago let alone 5 years ago.

Excellent job on being technically correct. Well done you.

Now, how about actually addressing the point? Which was that gaming (and fantasy fandom in general) has been dominated by men and particularly white men, for most of its history and by taking out some elements, like slavery, makes room for material that doesn't make people feel unwelcome in the hobby?

 

[Kaodi]

Lol, I was literally working on an MLIS assignment and reading through peer-reviewed articles that basically all came to the same conclusion: "roleplaying" and "rollplaying" is a false dichotomy and most players/tables vacillate between the poles.

It surprises me that it is true of tables, but not that it is true of people, I suppose. In my current group that plays on Foundry most of us are more focused on the roll-playing aspect of the game. I could live with more role-playing, but the DM mostly prefers the roll-play, and the DM is the driver in this regard. We have fun moments of conversation, but they tend to be very meta rather than strictly "in character" .

 

[Hussar]

Once upon a time, a very, very long time ago, I was young. Now I can certainly tell you that at the tender ages of 13 and 14, we handled sensitive subjects with the utmost respect and maturity it deserved. It'd be a lie, but I could tell you that. The truth is that our sense of humor was often sophmoric, which, if you think about, was pretty good considering we were freshman. One of our favorite jokes revolved around "sore butts" whenever a PC woke up after being rendered unconscious, especially if he had been captured. Hard to believe it, but we'd giggle at that. But as the years passed, we stopped making that joke. We had moved on to different subjects to treat with all the maturity you can expect from a 15 or 16 year old.

I'm not really bothered by the idea that younger people won't treat sensitive subjects with the respect they deserve. In fact, I expect it, because learning how to behave is part of growing up. That young people are unlikely to treat a sensitive subject isn't a good enough reason to exclude something from a game designed to be played by many ages.

OTOH, not that long ago, there was a fairly large kerfuffle at a con in England (and I'm blanking on the exact details) where the DM did EXACTLY this at the convention, the characters woke up with "sore butts" and the result was a fairly well known DM was ejected from the con.

Man thrown out of UK Games Expo after role-play gang rape row

One woman participating in the game branded the incident "appalling" and said the games master enjoyed the "shock factor of it"

www.mirror.co.uk

THIS is what I'm talking about when I talk about including something like slavery and Dark Sun. Because, it's never JUST a setting book. It's also public play. And tens of thousands of gamers routinely play with strangers.

 

[Kaodi]

So 80% male. Huh. Exactly what I said.

I would be very interested to see what the responses would be in, in a society that was 80% white, you expressed the belief that minorities were "virtually non-existent" .

 

[Hussar]

I'm not sure how they do it, but according to the DMG you total up all the individual monster xp. In this case 3900x4 and get 15,600. Then you multiply according to the table on page 82. For 4 creatures, since they get all get attacks and powers to use, you multiply by 2 and end up with 31,200.

AHA! My bad. I got the name of the monster wrong. It was a Walled Horror from Tome of Beasts 2 - a 2900 xp monster. That's where the 11600 comes from (4 CR 7 critters) and it appears that Fantasy Grounds does not calculate based on that table - it just gives the total value. Good to know.

To be fair though, that's 23200 for the total, which is 5800 xp/PC which is just a hair over Hard, and not Deadly.