D&D (2024) How did I miss this about the Half races/ancestries

[Alzrius]

But @Alzerious’s reply did not match my question. My question was why are only half races the ones described as misfits and subject to racism?

My answer is that your premise is incorrect. Drow, tieflings, and full-blooded orcs (among others) were all races that were described in a manner akin to what you're outlining here. But those descriptions all went away after a vocal contingent vociferously said that such presentations were morally objectionable. And now we're seeing the same thing said about the inclusion of half-races.

 

[Hussar]

I'm having a very hard time understanding your question. Are you saying that the people who've expressed moral outrage over things they don't like in D&D haven't influenced recent decisions on WotC's part to have large amounts of lore for monsters and PC races completely removed?

Yes, I think we're talking past each other. Let's see if I can clear things up.

My question is, why are ONLY the half-races called out for being the targets of racism and bigotry in the PHB (2014)? And, really, you can go further back into earlier PHB's as well. But, why do the half-races need to be the only targets of racism and bigotry?

My question was in response to this back and forth:

I completely agree.

But shouldn’t that be up to the player and not WotC? Shouldn’t al of these two hinges be dealt with at the table level rather than WotC telling the player that if they want to play a half elf, then there is the “right” way to play?

If someone wants to play a fighter, or a wizard, WotC definitely tells you the right way to play, at least in the way you're talking about. Of course, I'm sure that's completely different.

The comparison between playing a fighter and playing a half-whatever isn't a true comparison since there are no negative consequences for playing a fighter. You are not subjected to in game racism or bigotry because you happen to play a fighter. So, why should you be specifically called out as a target for racism and bigotry, ONLY when you choose to play a mixed race character? The argument is made that all characters might be subject to racism or bigotry. Fair enough. But, again, ONLY mixed race characters are specifically called out as being targets.

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I'm frankly finding it rather baffling that asking that we not include the same language that real world bigots use to describe and treat people in the PHB is considered a big ask. I would have thought that this was a pretty minor thing really. Hey, let's not use the same language that the One Drop people used in our pretend elf game.

Apparently that's a really big ask though.

 

[Micah Sweet]

So it’s a good idea to specifically target only the mixed races as targets for in game racism?

Or would it be better to leave that up to individual tables? Which is what saying any race could be subjected to racism.

It can be, if it makes sense for that setting. Plenty of fiction works that way. But sure, it could just as easily be any heritage. I just think that there's good narrative in having to deal with racial prejudice, and removing the concept entirely from the game books is unnecessary.

 

[Hussar]

My answer is that your premise is incorrect. Drow, tieflings, and full-blooded orcs (among others) were all races that were described in a manner akin to what you're outlining here. But those descriptions all went away after a vocal contingent vociferously said that such presentations were morally objectionable. And now we're seeing the same thing said about the inclusion of half-races.

Orcs are not in the PHB. Tieflings are a mixed heritage race. Only drow are the odd one out really. And, frankly, that's because drow have all sorts of other issues as well.

Again, I'm talking about the Player's Handbook here. What sources are you talking about?

 

[Hussar]

It can be, if it makes sense for that setting. Plenty of fiction works that way. But sure, it could just as easily be any heritage. I just think that there's good narrative in having to deal with racial prejudice, and removing the concept entirely from the game books is unnecessary.

Then it should be included in a setting book. Again, I'm talking ONLY about the Player's Handbook 2014. Just to be really, really specific.

And you seriously think it's a good idea that ONLY mixed heritage characters are called out for being subjected to racism? You honestly think that's a good look in the game? You see no problems at all here?

 

[Micah Sweet]

Then it should be included in a setting book. Again, I'm talking ONLY about the Player's Handbook 2014. Just to be really, really specific.

And you seriously think it's a good idea that ONLY mixed heritage characters are called out for being subjected to racism? You honestly think that's a good look in the game? You see no problems at all here?

I told you if you want to expand the idea of any heritage being potentially subject to racial prejudice, as opposed to just mixed heritage, that sounds good to me. I just want the idea to still be acceptable as a worldbuolding element for folks, and I feel presenting every species as a shining example of heroism weakens setting possibilities and reduces options for all those potential players WotC wants.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Orcs are not in the PHB.

Wait. When did they take that away?

 

[Hussar]

I told you if you want to expand the idea of any heritage being potentially subject to racial prejudice, as opposed to just mixed heritage, that sounds good to me. I just want the idea to still be acceptable as a worldbuolding element for folks, and I feel presenting every species as a shining example of heroism weakens setting possibilities and reduces options for all those potential players WotC wants.

How is not being subjected to racism equivalent to being a shining example of heroism?

And again, nothing says anything about what you do at your table. That’s fine.

But maybe the race writeups in the phb shouldn’t be taken from racist writing and thoughts? I know that seem like I’m asking for the world apparently. But maybe we don’t really need to reinforce the idea that if you aren’t pure of blood then you are a misfit and outcast incapable of being accepted in polite society?

Just a thought.

 

[Hussar]

Wait. When did they take that away?

When were orcs in the 5e phb?

 

[Bagpuss]

Now you’re getting the point. Why is being a misfit or experiencing bigotry only called out for the half races?

Why specifically those races?

Because it unfortunately reflects reality, thus it gives representation to those real world groups.

Allow it to apply to every race is diminishes the real world experiences of people that are actually born to two different heritages. The prejudice happens because of coming from two heritages. But like all bigotry is no fault of the person it is directed act.