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D&D (2024) How did I miss this about the Half races/ancestries

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Half-elves have varied between editions and contexts. In 2E, they were kind of a big deal because they had the least obnoxious level restrictions of any non-human, back when humans were utterly blah. In 4E, they had pretty significant multi-class abilities that could be build-defining. Half-elves being lame is a carryover from 3E if anything.

Edit: I don't particularly feel the need for half-species, but I do feel the context of why people have good memories of them is important.
 
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Innate spell, maybe, but, then that only applies to one flavor of elf. Does no one play a wood elf? Innate spell isn't innate to elves, it's just innate to one version of elf. Darkvision is hardly a defining aspect of any race. I'd argue that a lack of darkvision is probably more defining considering how many races get it. Resistance to charm or sleep? Ok, fair enough.
Well, I wasn't putting out an exhaustive list. Wood elves would have their hiding ability. And darkvision is in concert with the others. For instance the Oogieboogies could also have resistance to sleep and charm without being elves. What defines a race or subrace to me is a specific combination of abilities.
But, here's the thing. Your half elf could easily have all that. Resistance to charm, darkvision and cantrip. The only real difference between a 2014 PHB half elf and the revised half elf is that you would lose a couple of skills but gain a cantrip. Hardly the most defining aspects of a half elf. Conversely, you would lose darkvision and resistances, but, gain one skill and one feat as well as gaining Inspiration on a long rest (I believe that's the current version of human).
It's lazy and lousy for it to be one or the other. It's lazy, but better to allow combinations of abilities chosen by the player from both parent races. Ideally the half races would have new abilities that represent a combination of the parent races, but are defining for that particular half race.
Again, not exactly screaming, "I'M NOT A HALF ELF" here. If the spell thing is a hang up, burn the feat on Magic Initiate and now you're pretty much an elfy half elf.
You should never have to spend a feat or skill that you get from somewhere else in order to create the race you want. That's just a tax and it's wrong. The race itself should give you all that you need.

That's also why I'm not fond of the longsword training being racial. That's part of culture, not race. What I'd like to see are racial abilities(innate/genetic abilities) in with the races/subraces, and a list of cultures to pick from that give you things like skills and the longsword, shortsword and bow proficincies.
The point being, the half-races never really had any unique mechanics. They basically had watered down mechanics from both parents. Well, now, you don't have to worry about that. You now have the mechanics from one or the other parent, and the player gets to choose.
Yeah. I agree that they should have been given more effort when their abilities were being created.
 

I don't understand this line of thinking. "Pick a parent" only applies to mechanical abilities. It's not like any of the half races had unique abilities to those half races. A half elf doesn't have anything that an elf or a human doesn't have. So, your half-elf uses elf powers and my half elf uses human powers.

Do people actually define the race of their character by the abilities of that race? Is that what it means to be an elf? +1 to hit with a longsword and a spell?
Half-Elf has Fey Ancestry - Elf has that, Human does not.
Half-Elf has floating skill proficiencies - Human has something like that (at least in the playtest), Elf does not.

Under "Pick a Parent", I can't have both Fey Ancestry and floating skill proficiencies. I can't have a mixed-ancestry character that feels like they draw something distinct from both of their parent lineages in any mechanical sense. That may not be important to everyone, but it is to me.

I don't create characters concepts thinking first and foremost about how I am going to get X or Y mechanic into my build - I think of their story, who they are, where they came from, and choices of class and ancestry are generally derived organically from that. But once I come to the conclusion that "This character is a Human/Elf/Khoravar/Dwarf/etc.", then I want them to feel that way.

Saying "Use an Elf statblock and call it a Half-elf" feels like saying "Play an Aarakocra and call it an Air Genasi" - you could do that, and maybe that would work fine for you, but if I had wanted to play a bird-man instead of an air elemental genie-man, I'd have chosen to play a bird-man in the first place. If I wanted to play an Elf, I'd have chosen to play an Elf - it's not about "+1 with a longsword and a spell", it's about the fact that locking my Khoravar out of half of their lineage for the privilege of choosing between Trance or a Human bonus feat when I didn't want either one in the first place doesn't make them feel like Khoravar, it makes them feel like an Elf or a Human, regardless of what I prefer to call them.

This is exacerbated when it's scaled up to world-building levels. Under "Pick a Parent", it means that on a fundamental level, the only shared traits that a society of mixed human/elves (or any other combination) possess are the aesthetic ones. If 50% of a society made up exclusively of half-human half-elves experience something as core to the "human" experience as sleep in a profoundly different way than the other 50% of their kin, then they stop feeling like a single cohesive "people" and start feeling like two different peoples that happen to living in close proximity. It changes the dynamic and makes it feel like there is some kind of stark divide between the "human" half-elves and the "elven" half-elves that cannot be bridged, to the point where them even being "half-elves" in the first place stops feeling relevant - they may as well have just been humans and elves from the beginning, because at least then they would no longer feel like there's some fundamental level on which they ought to be able to relate to one another but ultimately just can't, even if they happen to be identical twin siblings that have never spent a day apart.

I have no issue with someone playing a half-elf that uses the elven statblock as a means of emphasizing a particularly strong connection to their elven heritage, but doing so at the cost of more fully "mixed" statblocks only serves to forcibly divide mixed-ancestry characters into the "You're really an X" and "You're really a Y" camps.

If I want to play a Khoravar, then telling me to just play a Human or an Elf and say they're something else misses the mark for me.
 
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There is the inevitable questions of which half-species or even quarter species to prioritize and which species to cut out to make space for them.
Put the "Pick a Parent" sidebar in the PHB and the more complex "Mix and Match" rules in the DMG section for creating custom PC races/species, with Half-Elf and Half-Orc (under whatever new names they determine to be appropriate) as examples, a la Aasimar and Eladrin from the 2014 DMG.
 

Put the "Pick a Parent" sidebar in the PHB and the more complex "Mix and Match" rules in the DMG section for creating custom PC races/species, with Half-Elf and Half-Orc (under whatever new names they determine to be appropriate) as examples, a la Aasimar and Eladrin from the 2014 DMG.
They would ultimately need to be guidelines and suggestions rather than a complete ruleset given the 5E design. The classic species aren't too hard to mix because they have so many features, but species with major core gimmicks will be harder to divide, and truly unique hybrid outcomes would break that scope.
 

There are the inevitable questions of which half-species or even quarter species to prioritize and which species to cut out to make space for them.
I don't think you need to do all the races.

You could do a Fey Bloodline hybrid for elves, gnomes, gobliniodss, and firborgs.
A rage something for orcs and gobliniods.
A beastfolk that can so all the animal races.
A stoneborn for dwarf and Goliath hybrids.
A dragonscale for dragonborn, kobold, and lizardfolk mixes.

These races could be written as distinct races or magical or divine creations in some settings.

And after that it's up to DMs
  1. Beastfolk
    1. Small or Mefium
    2. Choose 2 of
      1. Claws
      2. Fangs
      3. Gills
      4. Hide
      5. Horns
      6. Legs
      7. Wings
  2. Faeblood
    1. Small or Mefium
    2. Learn Elven or Sylvan
    3. Choose 1 of
      1. Fey Magic
      2. Fey Might
      3. Fay Mind
      4. Fey Movement
  3. Ragebound
    1. Furious assault
    2. Rage
  4. Stoneborn
    1. Choose one of
      1. Hulk
      2. Squat
  5. Wyrmscale
    1. Small or Medium
    2. Dragonclaw
    3. Dragontail
 

One way to deal with this issue is to abandon Gygaxian naturalism to some extent and embrace the mythic underworld: there are no orc babies. And no orc females, or orc factories where orcish arms and armor are produced. There are only full-grown armed and armored orcish warriors, for the same reason there are only full-grown bogeymen and not babies. Orcs are wickedness and violence personified, rage and greed and darkness somehow made flesh. They don't reproduce through mammalian sexual reproduction; they simply exist wherever enough potential for hatred and malicious glee invites them to exist.

I am fine with evil orcs having babies, I just think it is hard to justify murdering babies because one day they might pose a threat to a human.

I do appreciate that orcs are wickedness and violence personified but the issue with the orc baby killing is that is also an act of wickedness and violence. And even in a cosmology where all orcs are evil, I think you still need to leave room as a good character for the possibility of exceptions (even if it is just for the sake of their own soul)


It's not the only way to run orcs, but it's an easy way to avoid the "orc baby" issue if you want orcs to be an "automatic bad guy" faction.

Again, I am fine with orcs as the automatic bad guy. There is just something about killing an orc baby that seems impossible to justify as a good character (and I am not saying players who do so are reflecting their real world morality, I just have trouble calling those characters good guys if they do that).
 

Does it? Are there really that many people who are looking at D&D and saying "hey, these fantastic beings aren't big enough jerks to each other; I don't want to play this game now"?

I think it does. I don't think it is about players feelings their characters can't play enough jerks. I do think it is about an increasingly cautious approach to flavor, and the removal of the things from the game that people like. And eliminating even the mere potential that someone will do something bad with the material.

Sure, I imagine that there's some people like that, but I have a feeling that those people would probably prefer a darker game to begin with, not D&D's genre of heroic fantasy. And they probably either wouldn't want to play D&D in the first place, or would have little problem turning an existing setting grittier or making their own "realistic" setting.

I think a lot of the people advocating for D&D retaining these elements in this thread are not into grim dark D&D. They just like that kind of flavor, some amount of rough edges, and to us it feels like the flavor is being watered down to avoid controversy
 

Well, yeah. For a lot of players, I suspect mechanics had a very strong influence on what race they'd play with them favoring whatever synergized with their preferred class. It's not like the adventure was going to be markedly different because they chose to play an elf or a gnome instead of a human.

I think the abilities are at least very important to people
 

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