D&D (2024) How did I miss this about the Half races/ancestries

[Umbran]

Can we stop with the tangents and go back to how this is a huge "you don't exist" to all mixed-race people? (which includes the whole Latino population?)

Sure. But they aren't removing mixed-race people from the game.

They seem to be removing mixed-race as separate game-races, and they are ceasing to refer to them as "half-X". So, "half-elves" will not be a separate character race you can choose.

But, you'll be able to make a character that has an elf and a human as parents. The first playtest packet months ago already had rules for making a character of mixed parentage. You could have a character of dwarf and elf parents, for example. I expect something similar will exist in the final ruleset.

What they had didn't make mixed-parentage a source of mechanical differences or advantage. I've seen arguments for and against that take, but either way, the assertion they are saying people of mixed-parentage don't exist seems to be false.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

What they had didn't make mixed-parentage a source of mechanical differences or advantage. I've seen arguments for and against that take, but either way, the assertion they are saying people of mixed-parentage don't exist seems to be false.

This is a distinction without a difference. If two types of elves are mechanically different, but an elf-human is mechanically identical to one parent or other, then the elf-human is not a game element which actually exists.

 

[Umbran]

Like seriously the “you’re really either European or Native, regardless of how you look” solution is just flat out unacceptable.

I think allowing mechanical differences based on mixed-parentage is apt to cause a lot of problems (and min-maxing based on race is... kinda icky, isn't it?). I am not convinced doing so sends a good message, either.

The playtest package shifted a lot of the weight of character building into background, which seems a better choice than biology.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I think we're talking past each other. I'm specifically talking about PLAYER options. Monster options are totally different and a whole different element. I guess that's why I don't understand why you're talking about "troll" regeneration, as if trolls are the only creature that regenerates. Since no PC regenerates, who cares?

You seriously don’t understand a common example to show relative frequency?

Seriously?

Who is casting charm effects on the PCs? Other PCS, or a monster?

Oh look, what monsters do is actually directly part of what we are discussing. How about that.

Also why you bringing up trolls while quoting a post that doesn’t even mention that?

It comes across like you’re grasping at empty rhetorical straws.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I think allowing mechanical differences based on mixed-parentage is apt to cause a lot of problems (and min-maxing based on race is... kinda icky, isn't it?).

Not really. And if it is, then get rid of race mechanics.

Allowing it for “pure” species folk and then using it as an excuse to not allow mixd characters to have any mechanical representation of being of more than one origin, would be pretty egregious.

I am not convinced doing so sends a good message, either.

What message are you worried about?

The playtest package shifted a lot of the weight of character building into background, which seems a better choice than biology.

It really didn’t. Elf va dwarf is just as impactful a choice, mechanically, as it is in the current rules, they just shifted what exactly makes up that mechanical weight, and in fact made it lean more toward biology, because species traits are supposed to be biological or magical nature rather than culture, now.

 

[Incenjucar]

I'm a little uncomfortable treating mixed-species and mixed-race as equivalent concepts. While my mixed background certainly gives me a different set of traits, it doesn't give me any powers, and the myths of people of different ethnic backgrounds having specific abilities gets pretty horrible pretty fast. Hybrid species having unique abilities is much more palatable a topic. It does open up the question of further mixing though; indeed, I once played a character with five different background species back in 2E, and it's not terribly hard to come up with something more complex.

 

[Hussar]

You seriously don’t understand a common example to show relative frequency?

Seriously?

Who is casting charm effects on the PCs? Other PCS, or a monster?

Oh look, what monsters do is actually directly part of what we are discussing. How about that.

Also why you bringing up trolls while quoting a post that doesn’t even mention that?

It comes across like you’re grasping at empty rhetorical straws.

Wait, what? You're the one who brought up troll regeneration. It's right in your own quote:

That is very recent. I’ve played maybe 12 hours of game time since then.

Sleep effects are not constant, okay, sure. Neither is just about thing else other than like…damage. It comes up more often than immunity to nonmagical damage, or trollish regen, IME.

You can't complain about me bringing up trolls when YOU are the one who brought it up.

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edit to add -

I'm having a reading failure. I honestly do not understand what point you're trying to make here @doctorbadwolf. I honestly cannot parse it. So, I think I'll just stop this line of discussion right here because it doesn't seem to be adding anything. Fair enough?

 

[Frozen_Heart]

I'm not being disingenuous. I would have thought appearance and the fact that you live virtually forever plus typically living in forests and various other behavioral cues like remembering past lives and the ability to shift gender would define elf. The fact that I don't sleep, per se isn't really all that important. Plus, "Fey Ancestry" only means a saving throw bonus which doesn't come up all that often. When's the last time you tried to use a Sleep spell on a PC? Heck, even charm isn't all that common.

So, no, neither not sleeping nor Fey Ancestry are "major character aspects". They're pretty minor details that rarely come up in play. And, again, the not sleeping thing is hardly unique to elves. There are quite a few races that don't sleep - war forged for example.

I find both the rp elements and the mechanical elements important. Like if I pick water genasi I'm picking it for the elemental themes and the story of how the character was either born a water genasi or became one.

But I also expect that to be represented on the table, with water breathing, swim speed, and spells like shape water.

I find it extremely frustrating how WotC refused to give genasi the elemental manipulation cantrips. With the reasoning being those spells were not in the PHB.

 

[MoonSong]

Sure. But they aren't removing mixed-race people from the game.

They seem to be removing mixed-race as separate game-races, and they are ceasing to refer to them as "half-X". So, "half-elves" will not be a separate character race you can choose.

But, you'll be able to make a character that has an elf and a human as parents. The first playtest packet months ago already had rules for making a character of mixed parentage. You could have a character of dwarf and elf parents, for example. I expect something similar will exist in the final ruleset.

What they had didn't make mixed-parentage a source of mechanical differences or advantage. I've seen arguments for and against that take, but either way, the assertion they are saying people of mixed-parentage don't exist seems to be false

It is an erasure. These will stop being entries in the books. No more lore about them, no more them breeding true and having their own societies or being singled out as rare by the setting. Forever confined to be a sidenote that everybody will ignore, just like with custom background. Having the equivalent of DM fiat on the book as replacement for a true entry will mean they won't even show up as NPCs in adventures. They will become a part everybody just ignores after -at best- playing one. And why wouldn't? Having them no different than a stansard elf or human will make them undistinct and forgetable. It means turning what was a standard option into a fringe choice that demands table buy-in and can only be done with one character. Because that is the issue with homebrew and nonstandard options, they are ine offs.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Wait, what? You're the one who brought up troll regeneration. It's right in your own quote:


You can't complain about me bringing up trolls when YOU are the one who brought it up.

……

You’re kidding me.

I asked why you were randomly complaining about it in reply to a quote that doesn’t even talk about it.

I don’t understand how that could possibly be confusing.

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edit to add -

I'm having a reading failure. I honestly do not understand what point you're trying to make here @doctorbadwolf. I honestly cannot parse it. So, I think I'll just stop this line of discussion right here because it doesn't seem to be adding anything. Fair enough?

I mean it’s not complicated. Maybe you’re looking for something between the lines or something, which isn’t how I communicate?

There are two points

First, that the elf’s species traits come up regularly enough to notice in my games, so I’m not sure relying on the anecdotal lack of same in your games is gonna be a good way to go? Maybe better to just stick to things that don’t rely on whose anecdotal experience is “more right”?

Second, the above doesn’t even actually matter, because how often a given trait comes up in play doesn’t determine how impactful it is on the outlook of a member of that race.