D&D (2024) How did I miss this about the Half races/ancestries

[MGibster]

"If I can't have a half-orc, then nobody should get anything!"

I don't really care. I'm perfectly fine with replacing half-orcs with just regular old orcs.

I'm perfectly fine with my dwarf/elf (dwelf?) Using the stats of one or the other in order to keep mechanical balance. I'm leery about any system that just lets players mix and match to get the best traits of two species. I'm sure you could create a system where you can balance said choices, but I feel that is too much for the PHB. Either way, I'm fine with this as a placeholder system until a better one is done by WotC or a 3pp.

And that's a perfectly valid point of view. But it's no more or less valid than the views of others who would be unhappy with that option.

 

[niklinna]

Ah I didn't realise that.

Here is me constantly using scientific terms due to thinking that they're not loaded with cultural baggage and therefore won't offend anyone.

Maybe people were onto something when they came up with the term 'schmorp'...

Everyone has an accent (or several). Even you.

Everyone has a culture (or several). Even scientists.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

Everyone has an accent (or several). Even you.

Oh I'm fully aware of my accent! The Americans all comment on it whenever I join a discord voicechat for gaming...

You know that part of hot-fuzz where he needs the translator? yeah that's the local accent here....

 

[Bagpuss]

Have you ever said something to someone that turned out to be bad for reasons you weren't aware of? Did you apologize to them anyway without berating them for 'being offended' like basic polite society expects?

Sure but if you actually have 1) change the words, and 2) ignore the context, before you can start taking offence then you are stretching a bit just so you can get upset. I'm not apologising for something I didn't say.

 

[niklinna]

Oh I'm fully aware of my accent! The Americans all comment on it whenever I join a discord voicechat for gaming...

As long as it's good-natured. Then again, if it's mocking, you can just adopt a parody version of one of their accents.

You know that part of hot-fuzz where he needs the translator? yeah that's the local accent here....

Loved that film! I miss movies.

 

[Bagpuss]

All of those terms have been used by various companies to replace "race" in D&D. The species argument about gorillas and dolphins falls apart when you use ancestry or lineage instead.

Well no it doesn't because gorillas and dolphins aren't lineages or an ancestry. They are different species which was precisely why I included them as an example so that it was clear I was talking about different species not heritage, ancestry or lineage.

To be honest, it sounds the most icky even if you use the original word (race).

Well only if you are using the meaning of race as an ethnic group, rather than the old biological mean "each of the major divisions of living creatures" IE: we are all members of the human race.

Which again is why I used species (not lineage or ancestry) as WotC are using now to add that clarity.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

Ok got it:

• Rename race/species/ancestry to 'schmorp'. That word has no baggage or cultural/language translation problems, as the word doesn't exist.
• Replace all the existing schmorps with brand new ones, none of which have the baggage and history associated with them.

(I joke of course, but I do legitimately wonder if this is the only way to pull off player schmorps without them being a problem for someone. At least without deleting different schmorps altogether and making them entirely aesthetic.)

 

[Remathilis]

I don't really care. I'm perfectly fine with replacing half-orcs with just regular old orcs.

And that's a perfectly valid point of view. But it's no more or less valid than the views of others who would be unhappy with that option.

I get that the refluffing option isn't necessarily the best option for everyone, but it has a few things going for it that people aren't always getting.

1. It allows for any combination of races to produce offspring, rather than limiting it to only a few select combos.
2. It doesn't allow for cherry picking the best options from different sets which could produce OP combos.
3. It's the most space conscious in a book already sounding pretty stuffed.
4. It can be easily replaced or augmented later, either when a "make your own lineage" option comes later or the Khorvar are printed in Eberron.
5. If WotC fails to step up, the community can do better. The DMs Guild has products like this already.
6. This doesn't remove the option to play a mixed lineage or species, it just moves that from "mechanically important" to "part of your backstory ". BIFTs are getting a similar treatment.

Is it perfect? No. But I'm not letting perfect be the enemy of the good enough. And for the core book, that's good enough.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I'd be fine with that. However, I don't know if the overall market would be ready for that step yet.

It’s not about “ready”, which implies that your preference is more sophisticated or evolved than others. It’s just a preference.

Getting rid of all mechanical significance for one’s ancestry wouldn’t magically solve any issues of representation in the game. At all. It would just be a bland dodge, at best.

The notion that giving mechanical weight to being mixed as a different lives experience than being fully in either parent’s community is somehow racist is spurious. It’s just a reversal that avoids to actual issue being raised and attempts to invalidate those raising it.

Realistically--if they are going to go this route, this is the only sane way to do this--even if it is boring. Otherwise, it's a million and one pre-defined race/linage/species mix templates; or a min/max fest of picking characteristics from both. Race as become less and less mechanically important in D&D over the years (a long way from race as class in BMCMI), and the mechanical complexity generated by social issues around race just isn't worth the fuss.

Or, each new species writeup could have literally 2-3 lines saying what a mixed ancestry character should get, and some simple language in the entry to the chapter about dealing with proficiencies and other types of species features.

@Umbran I'm bowing down from this thread. I've already expressed my feelings and worries. I identify with half elves and find this new approach invalidating and tone deaf and one that makes me feel less welcome into the hobby period. I can only hope the change somehow doesn't come to be or I may simply skip this edition/version whatever.

Happy gaming and happy discussion

I fully agree, and somehow have failed to put it this clearly, so thank you.

Just having to fight for this to not be the new model has made me feel less welcome here. If it makes print…well I guess work on my own game might go quicker if I stop playing D&D .

 

[Bagpuss]

Ok got it:

• Rename race/species/ancestry to 'schmorp'. That word has no baggage or cultural/language translation problems, as the word doesn't exist.
• Replace all the existing schmorps with brand new ones, none of which have the baggage and history associated with them.

(I joke of course, but I do legitimately wonder if this is the only way to pull off player schmorps without them being a problem for someone. At least without deleting different schmorps altogether and making them entirely aesthetic.)

But that would add more confusion, they removed race as it has two meanings (either a major biological division [like species], or an just ethnic one within the same biological one [like heritage]). If you replace it with "schmorp", while it has no baggage it also has no meaning so people could assign their own meaning to it be it heritage or species, just leading to more confusion.

WotC have added clarity by going with species, making it clear there is a major biological division between the different humanoids, they have further made it clear by saying hybrids are because of the magical nature of the D&D universe (not something natural). And to be fair to them ditching half-orcs and half-elves is the way to go if you are making humans a different species than elves.

People might like that, but that is the way they went.