D&D (2024) How did I miss this about the Half races/ancestries

[Minigiant]

The problem with this is I don' think it will actually improve anything. I think you will get what happens when something is made to please 100% of the audience: things tend to get watered down, less compelling and interesting because creators become risk averse, more pablum, etc. Because you are listening to every single audience member now, and not as attentive to following more of a clear vision of a creative project. It will make design more collective I suppose. But I am just not convinced this is going to make things more entertaining or better. It just seems to combine the worst elements of design by committee but multiplies by 1 million. Maybe that is what D&D should be.

I'm not to make lore be committee

I'm saying WOTC designer and writers who are professional should

1. make orc lore that makes sense in the context of the game
2. make half orc lore that makes sense in the context of the game
3. make hale elf lore that makes sense in the context of the game
4. make drow lore that makes sense in the context of the game
5. make hobgoblin lore that makes sense in the context of the game

The whole "Ravaging Scavengers" paragraph in the Orc MM entry makes no sense. Anyone who reads it and inserts in their world will realize it doesn't make sense. A whole tribe of orcs constantly raiding villages will meet the full force of their local lord with steel because that's their money the orc are burning. And if the orcs are small enough to not trouble the lords, then there aren't that many orcs in the world doing this.

LOTR orcs without Sauron and Saruman doesn't make sense. Warhammer, Might and Magic, Diablo, and Warcraft realized that. D&D is still hemming and hawing about it.

So let's stop using LOTR style lore outside LOTR and make something better that makes sense as a replacement.

I mean just to take one example, I love the conan character from the books, but I don't think making the D&D barbarian more like him is going to improve the barbarian class (the class with all its Arnold elements and the hokier presentation oriented around rage, is what resonated with people). I think there is a very good, grounded and gritty fantasy RPG built around Conan you could make. But D&D has never been that game.

D&D can make a barbarian that benefits from high Intelligence. Or High Wisdom. Or High Charisma.

Actually Support and Acknowledge the Tribal Chief archetype .

 

[Faolyn]

That argument says they should never make anything new, because they'll just focus on the old. Pretty bleak to my mind. There's no reason that they can't make a new setting, tie it to a new edition, and make money. They might not make as much, but I don't think every company needs to maximize profits over quality product.

I didn't say that. I said that even if they made something new, they'll focus on the old... like so far in 5e, when they've made new settings but nearly all of the adventures have been for the Realms or have started in the Realms.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I'm not to make lore be committee

I'm saying WOTC designer and writers who are professional should

1. make orc lore that makes sense in the context of the game
2. make half orc lore that makes sense in the context of the game
3. make hale elf lore that makes sense in the context of the game
4. make drow lore that makes sense in the context of the game
5. make hobgoblin lore that makes sense in the context of the game

The whole "Ravaging Scavengers" paragraph in the Orc MM entry makes no sense. Anyone who reads it and inserts in their world will realize it doesn't make sense. A whole tribe of orcs constantly raiding villages will meet the full force of their local lord with steel because that's their money the orc are burning. And if the orcs are small enough to not trouble the lords, then there aren't that many orcs in the world doing this.

LOTR orcs without Sauron and Saruman doesn't make sense. Warhammer, Might and Magic, Diablo, and Warcraft realized that. D&D is still hemming and hawing about it.

So let's stop using LOTR style lore outside LOTR and make something better that makes sense as a replacement.


D&D can make a barbarian that benefits from high Intelligence. Or High Wisdom. Or High Charisma.

Actually Support and Acknowledge the Tribal Chief archetype .

I would honestly love to see orc-lore that doesn't evoke classic orc-tropes and isn't bland. They have no identifying characteristics outside physical appearance from humans, and every modern attempt I've seen ends looking pretty weak sauce, because the whole thing is a minefield.

Maybe orcs in general, not just LOTR orcs, don't make sense without a big bad driving them along. I know there are orcs that folks have praised, like the one in Eberron, but what exactly do those depictions have that humans don't? What makes them "orc-y" if you will?

 

[Micah Sweet]

I didn't say that. I said that even if they made something new, they'll focus on the old... like so far in 5e, when they've made new settings but nearly all of the adventures have been for the Realms or have started in the Realms.

Well, there's nothing forcing them to do that (other than the drive for the most $ possible).

 

[Faolyn]

And if the orcs are small enough to not trouble the lords, then there aren't that many orcs in the world doing this.

And logically speaking, they'd have been killed off ages ago.

 

[Minigiant]

I would honestly love to see orc-lore that doesn't evoke classic orc-tropes and isn't bland. They have no identifying characteristics outside physical appearance from humans, and every modern attempt I've seen ends looking pretty weak sauce, because the whole thing is a minefield.

Maybe orcs in general, not just LOTR orcs, don't make sense without a big bad driving them along. I know there are orcs that folks have praised, like the one in Eberron, but what exactly do those depictions have that humans don't? What makes them "orc-y" if you will?

Orcs in my homebrew setting are all strong and are naturally respectful of strength. Orc nations allow political arguments and elections be won via altheletic strength bsed contests like wrestling and jumping as an option. This allows dark lords to gather followers of evil orcs with displays of strength. Especially evil orcs who wish to be allowed wanton destruction will even make exceptions for magically enhanced strength.

I mean its basic. But D&D wont even say "Orcs value strength. Evil orcs will follow an evil strongman or evil warlord of great might."

Nope. D&D says orcs don't build nations and somehow feed their thousands of massively muscular bodies with just raiding and no one ever slaughters them all ever after burning down 12 villages a year.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Orcs in my homebrew setting are all strong and are naturally respectful of strength. Orc nations allow political arguments and elections be won via altheletic strength bsed contests like wrestling and jumping as an option. This allows dark lords to gather followers of evil orcs with displays of strength. Especially evil orcs who wish to be allowed wanton destruction will even make exceptions for magically enhanced strength.

I mean its basic. But D&D wont even say "Orcs value strength. Evil orcs will follow an evil strongman or evil warlord of great might."

Nope. D&D says orcs don't build nations and somehow feed their thousands of massively muscular bodies with just raiding and no one ever slaughters them all ever after burning down 12 villages a year.

Strength could work maybe. But the problem is, every other classic race has decades of characterization behind it, a lot of which is still usable by the controversy-averse. Orcs, without their tropes, are always going to be a thin sketch, or they're not going to feel like orcs.

 

[Minigiant]

Strength could work maybe. But the problem is, every other classic race has decades of characterization behind it, a lot of which is still usable by the controversy-averse. Orcs, without their tropes, are always going to be a thin sketch, or they're not going to feel like orcs.

There's plently to use and plenty to make. Many other game series haved one a lot with orcs.

Like I keep saying, WOTC is either afraid or unable to create new lore. The issue is WOTC.

I mean even dwarves and halflings are reverting back to one subrace.

 

[Incenjucar]

It would be a trivial design effort to improve orcs to be at least in the same ballpark as halflings.

 

[MGibster]

I would honestly love to see orc-lore that doesn't evoke classic orc-tropes and isn't bland. They have no identifying characteristics outside physical appearance from humans, and every modern attempt I've seen ends looking pretty weak sauce, because the whole thing is a minefield.

I really like the orcs from World of Warcraft. I suppose they evoke some classic orc tropes, but they've got a thriving civilizaiton of their own.