D&D (2024) How did I miss this about the Half races/ancestries

[Hussar]

At some point you just gotta realize you can't please everyone, shrug your shoulders, and move forward.

Which is exactly what they’ve done.

Only apparently they didn’t shrug their shoulders at the right group for some people.

 

[Hussar]

Can you provide an example of orcs that don't use the classic tropes, aren't bland, and still feel like orcs?

Level up? Pathfinder? Eberron? Spelljammer?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Can you provide an example of orcs that don't use the classic tropes, aren't bland, and still feel like orcs?

Why? Over the past few years, several have been posted in other threads on similar topics on ENWorld. (I believe you may have even participated in some of those threads.)

Read enough Sci Fi and fantasy fiction & RPGS, and you’ll find a myriad of takes on bestial, aggressive humanoids. Some are bad, some are decent, some are great. But not all of them rely on the same foundations; on the same crutches of RW stereotypes.

Personally, I always liked the Nehwon Ghouls and their translucent skin & muscles, but visible bones. They were “always evil” cannibals who thought consuming the flesh of others was a blessing- transforming opaque meat into the crystalline-clear flesh of their own.

in Sci Fi, humanity as a whole is sometimes cast as “space orcs”, relative to the other sentient species they encounter.

 

[Hussar]

Snip

. Because you are listening to every single audience member now, and not as attentive to following more of a clear vision of a creative project. It will make design more collective I suppose. But I am just not convinced this is going to make things more entertaining or better. It just seems to combine the worst elements of design by committee but multiplies by 1 million.

You do realize that ignoring voices and following the “clear” vision is exactly the problem right? Why is listening and following the advice of new voices automatically “design by committee”? Not listening is why we have all these problems.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Why? Over the past few years, several have been posted in other threads on similar topics on ENWorld. (I believe you may have even participated in some of those threads.)

Read enough Sci Fi and fantasy fiction & RPGS, and you’ll find a myriad of takes on bestial, aggressive humanoids. Some are bad, some are decent, some are great. But not all of them rely on the same foundations; on the same crutches of RW stereotypes.

Personally, I always liked the Nehwon Ghouls and their translucent skin & muscles, but visible bones. They were “always evil” cannibals who thought consuming the flesh of others was a blessing- transforming opaque meat into the crystalline-clear flesh of their own.

in Sci Fi, humanity as a whole is sometimes cast as “space orcs”, relative to the other sentient species they encounter.

Sure. But D&D is still going to have a species, or a MM entry, or both, called "Orc". What are they going to be like? I'm not talking about a group that fills a similar narrative role, I'm talking about orcs. What are the inoffensive, yet not bland orcs going to be? What have they been? Level Up did a pretty good job, especially with the orc-focused cultures, but they didn't have a lot to say about orcs themselves, because without their culture orcs have very little to differentiate them from humans outside of pure cosmetics.

 

[Micah Sweet]

You do realize that ignoring voices and following the “clear” vision is exactly the problem right? Why is listening and following the advice of new voices automatically “design by committee”? Not listening is why we have all these problems.

Any given creative project needs to have a relatively small number of people actually deciding what's in it and making it, in my view. They should listen to the people they actually want to sell to, but everybody does not get a say, and at a certain point designers need to trust their own judgements and training.

 

[MGibster]

Only apparently they didn’t shrug their shoulders at the right group for some people.

I canlive with a solid decision even when I don't like it. I accept the changes species even if I think they're boring as hell, I'm completely fine with orcs not being evil all the time, and I can live without half-eves or half-orcs even if I'm not bothered by their existence. What I find most unfortunate is WotC's unwillingness or inability to put out a decent setting these days.

 

[Minigiant]

Because every time WotC even whispers about changing anything, they get shouted down and the screaming hordes shout from every rooftop endlessly that they are destroying the hobby.

It's like the drow. Everyone knows the logistics and extreme CE culture of drow isn't sustainable. There has been thread on forums about it since the 90s.

But if you dare change it...

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

But D&D is still going to have a species, or a MM entry, or both, called "Orc". What are they going to be like? I'm not talking about a group that fills a similar narrative role, I'm talking about orcs. What are the inoffensive, yet not bland orcs going to be?

Asked and answered. Whatever they need to be for the purposes of the game & setting.

To clarify: as long as you don’t lazily design your orcs (or any other sentient creatures in fiction or RPGs) using RW negative stereotypes, you’re in the clear. It’s not hard. Authors & game designers across time and around the world have done so frequently and continue so to do.

Turning it around…in that last sentence of yours I quoted, you’re implying there’s some kind of inherent, unavoidable link between being offensive and not being bland. This begs the question: WHY? There is no “offensive/bland” curve for fictional species analogous to a supply & demand curve for economics. They’re independent, not interdependent concepts.

 

[Incenjucar]

Can you provide an example of orcs that don't use the classic tropes, aren't bland, and still feel like orcs?

The LevelUp Core Adventurer's Guide seems to fit the bill. There is a mention of the racism of other beings, but you could easily delete that part and still have a fine player species.