D&D (2024) Dear Team WotC: Better Pact Magic Fixes

Remathilis

Legend
Oh. Also.

You can take Mystic Arcanum to get spells at the same max level as a wizard.

So fireball at 5, and wish at 17 are still possible.
You can also retrain it every level to change the spell and spell level, as long as you meet the requirements. The MA you take at 5th for a 3rd level spell can be retrained to be a 4th level spell at 7th level. It's only when you want additional slots that your need to take MA more than once.

Btw: you can get 4 9th level spells with MA. Didn't think about that...
 

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Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
You are really bizarrely hung up on this word choice, aren't you?
I respond to what you say because I can't see inside your head if you meant something different than what you said.

It's not like what you said was vague and open to interpterion here. You were adamant and repeated it. It's sounding like you regret it though.

Look, warlocks have a distinct mechanical identity from other 5e casters.
Yeah they take a smaller number of hours to refresh their spell slots. I find this to me not particularly fascinating in terms of mechanical choices and doesn't feel like an "identity" to me but rather "artificial rule to place a constraint on spellcasting for balance reasons." Given you were open to changing that mechanic as long as it was different than other mechanics and gave roughly the same result, it doesn't seem like you think it's the identity either.


Making them work like other 5e casters would ruin that mechanial identity.

The one you were not particularly committed to anyway and is literally just a change in number of hours to refresh slots?

Whatever words you would rather I used to express that, just pretend I used them so we can move on from this incredibly pedantic point.
It was your argument. How am I to know what you meant by it if you didn't mean the words you used and you won't supply alternatives?

Not so. There's a difference in how many resources you need to manage as a player, how many encounters you need to manage them across, and the power of the spells those resources are used to cast.

All true so fair enough on that. But you were open to adding more spell slots and altering the mechanic to allow for more burst usage and higher level spells so how committed are you really to the mechanic?

Other casters have several spell slots at each level, and typically only very few at their current highest level, all of which they must consider how they want to use throughout an entire adventuring day. That can be an enjoyable play pattern, I'm glad it's available as an option, but I don't need it to be how every single spellcaster works. It's nice having at least one class where your spellcasting is an encounter-based resource instead of an adventuring day resource, where you know you can cast a level-appropriate spell basically every combat, maybe a couple times in a combat if you're in a rough spot, and don't have to fiddle with a bunch of low-level spells and ration them all out across the entire day.
It's not encounter based. I think that is the major disconnect here. You're speaking in 4e terms about something that doesn't exist in 5e as if it does. A short rest is not supposed to be a substitute for encounter powers. Most people don't get as many short rests as they want. Some get zero. It's a big complaint for a lot of players, and has been for years, and a barrier to people playing the Warlock you love.
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
I respond to what you say because I can't see inside your head if you meant something different than what you said.

It's not like what you said was vague and open to interpterion here. You were adamant and repeated it. It's sounding like you regret it though.
It's a common turn of phrase, that I used in a perfectly appropriate fashion. I don't know what your deal is with its use, but it seems to bother you tremendously, so imagine I used whatever other words wouldn't have tilted you so much and move on.
Yeah they take a smaller number of hours to refresh their spell slots. I find this to me not particularly fascinating in terms of mechanical choices and doesn't feel like an "identity" to me but rather "artificial rule to place a constraint on spellcasting for balance reasons." Given you were open to changing that mechanic as long as it was different than other mechanics and gave roughly the same result, it doesn't seem like you think it's the identity either.

The one you were not particularly committed to anyway and is literally just a change in number of hours to refresh slots?


It was your argument. How am I to know what you meant by it if you didn't mean the words you used and you won't supply alternatives?

All true so fair enough on that. But you were open to adding more spell slots and altering the mechanic to allow for more burst usage and higher level spells so how committed are you really to the mechanic?
I think that using a few powerful spells on an encounter by encounter basis instead of many spells on a daily basis is a key part of the warlock's mechanical identity. I am open to tweaking the details of how that function is expressed. What I am not open to is completely changing the warlock's resource management, as changing to the type of spellcasting you don't like calling Vancian would do.
It's not encounter based. I think that is the major disconnect here. You're speaking in 4e terms about something that doesn't exist in 5e as if it does. A short rest is not supposed to be a substitute for encounter powers. Most people don't get as many short rests as they want. Some get zero. It's a big complaint for a lot of players, and has been for years, and a barrier to people playing the Warlock you love.
It's absolutely encounter based. You get about two spell slots between short rests and about two encounters between short rests. The encounter is therefore the basic unit of game activity around which a warlock player needs to manage their spell slots. That is the thing I consider to be core to their mechanical identity and desire to preserve above all. If they get a few more spell slots between short rests, fine. If they get some other way to cast a few spells in addition to that, fine. If their spell slots change to the daily resource management model that every other class uses, not fine. This is not compliated.
 

Clint_L

Hero
Team WotC,

The warlock should not lose Pact Magic. The warlock is one of the most interesting, unique, and fun classes to play in 5e specifically because of the trends it bucks in spellcasting. Fans of warlocks really like what makes the class different, and if it has an issue of identity then homogenizing with other casters will just exacerbate the issue.

As a player who really loves playing warlocks and who talks with a lot of other players who really love playing warlocks, yeah, we would like to be able to cast spells more frequently—you hit the nail on the head in that regard. But the solution in the current playtest is completely wrong. So I looked at a bunch of community threads, crunched some numbers, and came up with some solutions for you, each of which would be better than making the warlock a half-caster.


Fix Short Rests
Based on the playtests and the general move away from most features recharging on a short rest, this ship has probably sailed. But, I still think it's worth saying that making short rests 5–15 minutes would remove the narrative burden of the short rest and drastically increase the use of all features that rely on short rests. Few warlocks will be afraid of using their 1–2 spell slots in a combat if they know they can take a quick breather after (in most circumstances), which will effectively result in what we asked for, being able to cast spells more frequently.


Limited Rapid Recharge (Meditation)
If short rests have to go (and many people want to see them gone), warlocks can keep Pact Magic exactly as it is with just one change that fixes everything: rather than recovering Pact Magic slots on a short rest, instead warlocks can meditate for a minute and get all Pact Magic slots back. This feature can be used a number of times per day equal to X. (Obviously that number would change based on warlock level and how many spell slots of what spell level the warlock gets). This keeps the heart and soul of the warlock intact and provides a very simple, easy-to-implement solution that would be in keeping with the design philosophy of this revision of 5th edition.

Here's what this would look like if we used the warlock spell slot (and spell level) progression as it currently exists and applied this new mechanic:
View attachment 283081
Let me explain how I made this chart.

First of all, warlocks are full casters. Pact Magic progresses in spell level at the same rate as full casting and provides the same value in spell slots that an average full caster gets—assuming the warlock gets 2 short rests per adventuring day (the assumed DMG average). Mystic Arcanum rounds this out by allowing warlocks to cast one 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th level spell per long rest. For the purpose of this analysis, we don't need to consider those spell levels, just the spell slot value of Pact Magic spell slots and levels (1–5).
So what do I mean by "same value in spell slots"?

The relative value of a spell level in relation to other spell levels has been calculated in the DMG in the Spell Point variant rule. It costs 1st-level spell are worth 2 points, 3 for 2nd-level, 5 for 3rd-level, 6 for 4th-level, and 7 for 5th-level. Traditional full casters spread this relative value out by having set spell slots of each level available to them, while warlocks concentrate all of this value into casting more spell slots of the highest spell level available to them (up to 5th level and per adventuring day) than a traditional full caster can at the cost of not having any lower-level spell slots. If these spell slots are all converted into spell points, traditional casters and Pact Magic warlocks are roughly equal in the spell slot value they have access to at any given level. When there is a disparity, it's normally the warlock falling behind. Thus, balance for a warlock is predicated on having about the same spell slot value as a traditional caster at any given level, at least with regards to 1st–5th level spells, while maintaining the spirit of Pact Magic's unique, innovative, and fun casting system; I kept this in mind as I crunched numbers.

To create a baseline average power level to measure any warlock Pact Magic revisions against, I totaled the spell points that a traditional single-class full caster would have access to at any given level, but only with regards to 1st–5th level spells. Then I divided those numbers by the spell point cost to cast a spell of the highest level available to a warlock at each level (and rounded down to the nearest whole number); these values I could use as a control group, as the relative value of the spell slots they represent would be equal with (or slightly below) the relative spell slot values a traditional full caster would get at those levels, even if the value is allocated differently. The result is the column titled No SR Slots: this column represents the number of spell slots a warlock would have on a given day if the warlock could cast all spells available to him at his highest spell level (up to 5th) but recharged all spell slots on a long rest rather than a short rest. I can use this column to compare against the effective number of spell slots a warlock would have if it were guaranteed a certain number of spell slots and spell slot recharges per day—the Effective Slots and # of Recharges columns—using the Limited Rapid Recharge (Meditation) mechanic. (The Spell Level and Slots columns already represent the spell level available to a warlock and the number of slots currently offered by Pact Magic.)

Now let's examine the chart, specifically the three columns that matter most (# of Recharges, Effective Slots, and No SR Slots), and explain why this mechanic is better than what we have now—and leagues better than the spellcasting proposed in Playtest Packet #5.

At most levels the current warlock only needs 2 rapid recharges per long rest for its number of effective slots to be about par with the spell slot value it should be at (represented in the No SR Slots column). That's significant—it shows that the idea behind the current short rest system works, with the only failure being the short rest itself. It evidences that the original warlock was excellently, elegantly, and efficiently designed to be about equal with other full casters while providing a completely different kind of experience. In other words, the warlock ain't broke, so don't "fix" it; fix the recovery mechanic.

Rapid Recharges (probably better represented in-game as "meditation" for about a minute) are the best fix for using Pact Magic without short rests. There are several reasons for this. First, recovering all spell slots after a minute of rest takes long enough that a warlock can't get its spell slots back for free during action (such as a chase or a battle), but it's short enough that the warlock still can recover its spell slots between moments of action, which doesn't happen with the current short rest system. This fixes all issues and concerns the warlock community has with, effectively not having enough spell slots. Second, limiting the amount of times a warlock can recover spell slots per long rest keeps warlocks on about the same power level as other full casters in the rare party that takes a short rest after every encounter. Third, limiting the amount of times a warlock can recover spell slots prevents shenanigans that keep certain spells from being added to the warlock spell list, such as create undead. Fourth, it keeps the spirit, intent, and flavor of Pact Magic intact, which warlock fans deeply care about.

It's worth noting that there are three spots on the above chart where the warlock spell slot value does not perfectly match up with where we might expect it to be: level 2, levels 8–10, and levels 17–20. Let's take a look at those levels and see why this isn't a problem.
  1. Level 2: The warlock gets one spell slot more than might be expected. For level 1 or 2 spells, a variation of 1 slot is not game-breaking at all, and it's not a big enough difference to overshadow or invalidate traditional full casters. (In addition, some full casters have mechanics that let them recharge a limited amount of spell slots per day, such as the wizard's Arcane Recovery, which bridges this gap.)
  2. Levels 8–10: The warlock falls up to three spell slots behind at these levels. That's a bit of a bummer, but casting 4th and 5th level spells up to 6 times per day (rather than 2, which is what most warlocks are currently doing, or 0 if they are too afraid to use those slots in the first place) is still a huge improvement from where warlocks currently are.
  3. Levels 17–20: The warlock gets on average two spell slots more than might be expected. This is the final tier of play, most players never experience these levels, and other traditional casters are at the strongest they will ever be (and often considered stronger than the warlock anyway), this small difference in spell slot power is not an issue.

In short, a system of rapid recharges, applied something like I've presented in the chart above, fixes all of the pain points the warlock class currently faces while also removing some of the multiclass-related pain points some players had with the warlock. The solution is as simple as the warlock is simple, helping the warlock remain a good first experience with spellcasting for new players but still being deep enough for returning players to get excited. The solution also gives the warlock more control over its resources and allows the warlock to cast spells more. Really, this is the best solution for the warlock class.

It also helps that this solution fits in really well with the other proposed warlock changes in Playtest Packet #5. For example, the new version of Mystic Arcanum helps to solve one of the few pain points of this solution, being having less spell slot value at levels 8–10 than might be desired.

I'm going to stop here for now—this has taken way more of my day than I had time to give it. But I have more experimental ideas for "fixing" Pact Magic (ideas that I think will appeal less to the WotC team and the 5e warlock community in general, but will all be better than making warlocks generic half-casters) that I may share in future comments in this thread, if I get the time and if there appears to be the interest.

Team WotC—in the miraculous event any of you read this—and anyone else who took the time for this long analysis, thank you for you time, and I hope you found this enlightening and engaging.
If a Warlock gets as many spell uses, on average, as a full caster with your proposal…why not make them a full caster? Yet if we make them a full caster, then invocations are way too powerful.
 




Yeah they take a smaller number of hours to refresh their spell slots. I find this to me not particularly fascinating in terms of mechanical choices and doesn't feel like an "identity" to me but rather "artificial rule to place a constraint on spellcasting for balance reasons." Given you were open to changing that mechanic as long as it was different than other mechanics and gave roughly the same result, it doesn't seem like you think it's the identity either.
You're absolutely right. That isn't the mechanical identity of warlocks, it's just an accident of the mechanics.

Warlocks are solid spellcasters who not an exercise in book keeping to track spells. That is the key part of their mechanical identity. No warlock has to track more than a single number that changes over time, and most of them can count their slots left on their thumbs. They only ever have a single list of limited use spells at one time (or two lists, one of which is for one shot spells) rather than either three or five different lists at tenth level, some of which can be flexed between lists and that do different things when used as parts of different lists while tracking multiple numbers of slots.

What this means in practice is that I can give a fifth level pregenerated warlock to a newbie, spend only a couple of minutes talking through it, and they won't suffer from analysis paralysis over the spells when they would if they were playing even a third level wizard or fifth level ranger. It also means that I can play an eighth level warlock and by the second session literally never have to look at my character sheet for the entire session, keeping the entire thing in my head and not forcing me to take my focus away from the group and the game. These are not hypothetical examples.

Being a generic off-the-shelf half-caster means you are not a solid spellcaster. It also means that you do need an exercise in book keeping to track spells, tracking multiple lists of spells and flexing spells between level. It is the literal opposite of the warlock's mechanical identity. This is why the warlock fans are in general more than fine with suggestions that change the warlock's recovery cycles or that push everything off spell slots into either always on or at will invocations; invocations aren't exercises in book keeping.

And just to simplify further the key mechanical identity part of pact magic that is a positive is that warlocks do not have more than a single pool of resources that all their spells draw on equally. And that their number of spells known is kept deliberately low because that makes it easier to master.
 

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