D&D General Fighting Law and Order

[Oofta]

This whole thing seems to have reached its fullest extent. Some people like DW and similarly-designed games, and others don't. The ones who don't have had plenty of opportunity to understand the ones who do, and it doesn't seem like anyone is going to change their mind. No one seems to be in favor of the OP's side in all this, so it seems the relevant points have all been made.

Am I wrong?

Nah, I agree. It's going nowhere. I'd add more of my thoughts on the topic but with some notable exceptions this stopped being a conversation long ago.

This is a D&D forum, not a PbtA forum.

 

[Oofta]

In many published adventures there really isn't much if any in-fiction justification for the wandering monsters they expect a DM to use, which is why I tend to largely ditch wandering monsters unless there is a good justification for their presence.

For example, if the adventure is set in an Orcish stronghold with a population of many dozens then occasionally bumping into a few Orcs makes perfect sense. Or if somewhere in the dungeon there's a spawner that every so often churns out three ghouls at a time, then meeting groups of ghouls makes perfect sense until-unless the spawner is shut down, after which there'll still be some ghouls wandering around but the frequency of meeting them should steadily become lower.

But if the same module lists, say, giant ants as a wandering monster in those locations, I won't use them; the Orcs would long since have wiped the ants out at source (or harnessed them as a food supply, whatever) and the ghouls would likely take care of any ants they met long before they got to the PCs (though just for kicks and variety I might toss in a giant-ant-ghoul or two).

Wandering monsters that are randomly generated from a table that doesn't take into account the location specifics always seemed odd to me as well. I may use the table as inspiration before the game but that's it. For example, if there are giant ants running around in the area of that orcish keep then there are signs of the orcs attempting to exterminate the ants. Perhaps I can add some cool flavor or maybe there's an opportunity to turn one side against the other.

I had a DM once who loved them. Funny thing is, every single time we did cross country travel he would "randomly" roll an encounter with a dragon and we'd have to leave our horses staked out so the dragon would eat them and not us. Horse traders made a lot of money off that group.

 

[NotAYakk]

If you're playing with a group of dull people, or people who aren't good at aspects of the game that make it not dull, the game will be dull. No rules will ever change that.

That sounds false.

Game rules actually change play experience, and can turn an otherwise dysfunctional or dull play into an exciting one.

Can game rules overrule everything else to an infinite degree? No. But neither are they irrelevant.

 

[Mort]

I had a DM once who loved them. Funny thing is, every single time we did cross country travel he would "randomly" roll an encounter with a dragon and we'd have to leave our horses staked out so the dragon would eat them and not us. Horse traders made a lot of money off that group.

You'd think at some point the Dragons would start demanding diversity in their meat (sheep, cows, the occasional lamb couldn't hurt) - the same meat all the time gets pretty boring). I'd have started bringing some along and when the DM asked me what the heck, I'd just say I'M being mindful of Dragons divers diet.

 

[NotAYakk]

You'd think at some point the Dragons would start demanding diversity in their meat (sheep, cows, the occasional lamb couldn't hurt) - the same meat all the time gets pretty boring). I'd have started bringing some along and when the DM asked me what the heck, I'd just say I'M being mundful of Dragons divers diet.

Wait, you are herding sheep because you think that would make something easier?

 

[Mort]

Wait, you are herding sheep because you think that would make something easier?

Actually, it's because the DM is leading up to Tomb of Horrors and I need cannon fodder for the traps.

 

[Micah Sweet]

<shrug> I like trying new things. If you like it in Star Trek, you might like it with a different genre as well.


So you don't have to keep looking them up in the core book.

I tried it in the post-apocalyptic and monster hunter genres, and I didn't like it. And STA, while having some things in common, is in many ways quite different from PbtA.

And a game where you're not supposed to be thinking about the rules of your PC, by design, does not particularly appeal to me either.

 

[Micah Sweet]

The rules in AW aren't designed to facilitate telling a story together. They're designed to ensure that, even though no one at the table is telling a story, the shared fiction that is created will have the basic shape of a fiction - rising action, crisis/climax, characters whose lives are transformed by the events they undergo, etc.

To have devised a way of generating such a fiction although no one at the table has to tell a story or even worry about telling one is the great technical achievement of AW.

Also, there are no restrictions in AW on when actions can be taken. There are rules that tell the GM when to say things and what sorts of things to say. Moldvay Basic has those rules too (though they're different ones: roughly speaking, the rule is to tell the players about the dungeon in response to the players declaring actions for their PCs that would reveal information about it). Gygax in his PHB assumes that GMs are working under similar sorts of rules, though his DMG then moves on to a different model of GMing which I think is closer to yours.

I'm not saying PbtA doesn't do what it wants to do well. I'm saying I don't want what it wants to do, so the game holds no appeal to me. I actively dislike game rules which operate on narrative structure. That is not, in my opinion, what RPG rules are for. It is not my preference.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Nah, I agree. It's going nowhere. I'd add more of my thoughts on the topic but with some notable exceptions this stopped being a conversation long ago.

This is a D&D forum, not a PbtA forum.

This is certainly a D&D thread. I don't understand why it became a thread about how cool PbtA games are.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Wandering monsters that are randomly generated from a table that doesn't take into account the location specifics always seemed odd to me as well. I may use the table as inspiration before the game but that's it. For example, if there are giant ants running around in the area of that orcish keep then there are signs of the orcs attempting to exterminate the ants. Perhaps I can add some cool flavor or maybe there's an opportunity to turn one side against the other.

I had a DM once who loved them. Funny thing is, every single time we did cross country travel he would "randomly" roll an encounter with a dragon and we'd have to leave our horses staked out so the dragon would eat them and not us. Horse traders made a lot of money off that group.

The trick is making good wandering monster tables for the area you're wandering in.