D&D (2024) Survey Launch | Player's Handbook Playtest 5 | Unearthed Arcana | D&D

[doctorbadwolf]

Oh yeah, you're right. Strange...

Hopefully they do a video on the actual results as well.

Yeah they finally did today, but it was just weird like…why one the day before and another the day of!?

Appreciate getting confirmation that, yes, they are open to exploring spellcasting progression structures for the warlock that don’t follow the same pattern as the other spellcasting classes, and they have at leased considered one with fewer total spell slots that gets new spell levels at the appropriate rate.

Yeah that was heartening. I wish there was a chance at all of my idea of having a number of max level, max -1, and max -2, spell slots per day, so that you have more slots at once, in a pct magic sort of way, without having more max level slots at one time.

Makes sense given the additional context that they’re still aiming for a certain speed of combat. I certainly wouldn’t call them “super juicy” myself, but I understand there’s a limit on how tactical they can allow at-will abilities to get before it becomes too disruptive to the pace of combat.

Yeah I think that combined with stuff like the changes to unarmed strikes, we will see a total package that gives a lot more dials and knobs for martial characters without leading to champion fighters doing 9 fancy manuevers in one round that takes half an hour to resolve.

Spellcasters have enough spells to be dropping AOEs with riders every round.

Casters don’t cast 2-5 spells per round.

 

[OB1]

Appreciate getting confirmation that, yes, they are open to exploring spellcasting progression structures for the warlock that don’t follow the same pattern as the other spellcasting classes, and they have at leased considered one with fewer total spell slots that gets new spell levels at the appropriate rate.

That was my first thought after seeing the new Warlock. Full caster progression but a cap of 2 on spell slots at each level thru 5ths. Recharge your top 2 slots once per day on a short rest. 6-9th level spells still require spending Invocations on Mystic Arcanum.

That said, I don't think the current version is very far from being great. I like how it expands the Warlock design space, and get that you have to give something up from full caster progression to get there (while still allowing for a near full caster version if you choose). Allowing Mystic Arcanum's of 6th (5th?) level or lower to be refreshed on a short rest might be all the current design needs to make it pop.

 

[Charlaquin]

That said, I don't think the current version is very far from being great.

I do, but I’m so tired of arguing about it. I’m just going to let them know what I think in the survey and hope for the best.

 

[Parmandur]

I wish they'd wait until they release the thing before putting out the video about it.

Well, it makes sense that they want to provide some feedback to people who have been playtesting before they fill out the survey, different from the introduction to playtest material.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

Casters don’t cast 2-5 spells per round.

And they never hit multiple people with any AOE spells, or cast summon spells, or take a moment to decide on their multiple pages of options. It is only those greedy martials taking up all the time.

 

[Asisreo]

I'm just glad they acknowledged that class-specific spells and cantrips aren't meant to be compared 1:1 with each other irrespective of classes.

 

[Neonchameleon]

That said, I don't think the current version is very far from being great. I like how it expands the Warlock design space, and get that you have to give something up from full caster progression to get there (while still allowing for a near full caster version if you choose). Allowing Mystic Arcanum's of 6th (5th?) level or lower to be refreshed on a short rest might be all the current design needs to make it pop.

Of course the first thing they need to do to make the warlock great is reverse to pact magic and then give you back high level Mystic Arcana for free the way it was before.

If you try to be a pseudo-full caster you basically have to give up all your post level 2 invocations; the only ones you're going to get are if you reclaim the mystic arcanum because you have actual slots at that level (so you reclaim one at level 9, one at level 13, and one at level 17). At this point you are a warlock with close to no invocations, and incredibly inflexible casting because you can't reallocate slots and you can't change which spell you prepare in each slot. 2-5 invocations is not going to come close to making up for that extreme lack of flexibility. This is, as I think I've shown, far worse than any actual full caster due to massive inflexibility.

The warlock is I agree close to being a great class. If it wasn't for being tied to a very flawed mechanic (short rests) it would already be comfortably the best class in 5e.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

And they never hit multiple people with any AOE spells, or cast summon spells, or take a moment to decide on their multiple pages of options. It is only those greedy martials taking up all the time.

It’s help these discussions if folks wouldn’t dive headfirst into absolutely slapstick hyperbole constantly.

4 people making saves and then taking damage from 1 damage roll takes less time than resolving even 2 fairly simple attacks. 2 attacks with different rider effects, even moreso.

I’ve played with Battlemasters next to Wizards and Druids. The Battlemaster took up a lot of time per round. When they got 3 attacks, it was nearly as bad as bad wizard turns, but it was most turns, while the wizard had a really long turn maybe 2-3 times a day.

And no one goes to the wizard for simple and easy to jump into. They go to the fighter. We don’t want the Champion fighter becoming just as complex as the BM. It’s pretty simple.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

I’ve played with Battlemasters next to Wizards and Druids. The Battlemaster took up a lot of time per round.

With their 4 maneuver activations per rest, I'm sure it was utter hell.

 

[Incenjucar]

Yeah they finally did today, but it was just weird like…why one the day before and another the day of!?

Yeah that was heartening. I wish there was a chance at all of my idea of having a number of max level, max -1, and max -2, spell slots per day, so that you have more slots at once, in a pct magic sort of way, without having more max level slots at one time.

Yeah I think that combined with stuff like the changes to unarmed strikes, we will see a total package that gives a lot more dials and knobs for martial characters without leading to champion fighters doing 9 fancy manuevers in one round that takes half an hour to resolve.

Casters don’t cast 2-5 spells per round.

AOEs can hit multiple targets. Many spells can also hit a single target multiple times.