D&D (2024) Martial vs Caster: Removing the "Magical Dependencies" of high level.

[Yaarel]

If nobody has made one by 2024, I might take up the challenge. Busy with a much more complex class right now, and I can't spare a distraction 8,000 words into a project.

Possibly, the "mythic warrior" can be a Fighter subclass.

Where some Fighter subclasses come across as Fighter "plus" magic, the mythic warrior subclass would emphasize the Fighter "is" magic.

Which sources would you draw from to get a sense of D&D features.

Maybe superhero genre can inspire, like DC Flash running at "Teleport" Speed.

 

[ReshiIRE]

There is a a whole cottage industry of people who make classes. On DMs Guild, or GM Binder or D&D Wiki. You want a warlord? There are several to choose from. Psionicist? I'd guess a half dozen takes on it. Witches? Several I have personally tried. Swordmages and summoners and shamans? Seen them all. There is a market for classes WotC won't make, but I've not seen a market for mythic, mountain -throwing martial classes. If there IS one, id love to see it. Please link it to me.

Because I see a lot of theory crafting and blame, dusted in a light sprinkle of edition wars, but I don't see a lot of solutions aside from some nebulous idea of bringing the 4e fighter back or nerfing wizards (or the occasional rewrite D&D from the ground up). It's like discussing politics; everyone is sure what the problem is, but nobody has a plan or fix it besides changing the status quo and removing the Other Party that's enabling it.

So I'd like to see someone's attempt to fix this problem. If the problem is as widespread as stated someone has to have cobbled together an attempt to fix it in the last nine years.

(edit: removed an inappropriate real world political comment i had in this post. But I will say that what I highlighted in bold is extremely risible and shows a lack of caring about real world politics and the issues of today - 'both siding' the world)

My person of indiscriminate gender, you're on a site run by most (all?) of the people behind Level Up 5e - which has a whole revised Fighter in it.

I haven't necessarily found a Fighter revised on DM Guild (not sure if the Pugilist counts, or how much we consider subclasses whose power be mythical) - but I did find this on GM Binder.

But as you said, there is a cottage industry for new classes. How many revised Monks or Rangers or Wizards or such have you seen on DM Guild, versus smaller homebrew? DM Guild is, after all, often a place for people to sell new content.

I don't see how this counters ANY argument besides, again, saying "wah wah, people are arguing and trying to figure out fixes, and suggestions for the literal makers of the games."

You seem to think that's a waste of time. So why are you in this argument in the first place?

 

[Incenjucar]

Possibly, the "mythic warrior" can be a Fighter subclass.

Where some Fighter subclasses come across as Fighter "plus" magic, the mythic warrior subclass would emphasize the Fighter "is" magic.

Which sources would you draw from to get a sense of D&D features.

Maybe superhero genre can inspire, like DC Flash running at "Teleport" Speed.

Mythic fighter needs its own class and subclasses. Being married to WotC's sidekick class is a needless detriment that makes the endeavor a waste of time. Same goes for a mythic rogue.

 

[Yaarel]

Mythic fighter needs its own class and subclasses. Being married to WotC's sidekick class is a needless detriment that makes the endeavor a waste of time. Same goes for a mythic rogue.

I can understand the need for a fresh start.

An obvious option is a 5e Warlord, while adding other mythic warrior subclasses.

That said, I really like how the Thera setting presented the Monk as the Athlete subclass. Indeed, it should be the other way around. The "Athlete" is the base class, then the "Monk" is one of the subclasses that a player can choose.

The new Athlete class would also focus on the unarmed combat, weapon sports like target practice and fencing, Olympic level body stunts, running, Strength contests, and so on.

 

[Minigiant]

@Emberashh

I'm argeeing with you.
What I am saying is D&D need to step up an define what level 15 is.

Are level 15 PCs...
1)Human
2)Inhuman
3)Superhuman
4)Myths

Then dseign ALL the classes to match that.

 

[Yaarel]

@Emberashh

I'm argeeing with you.
What I am saying is D&D need to step up an define what level 15 is.

Are level 15 PCs...
1)Human
2)Inhuman
3)Superhuman
4)Myths

Then dseign ALL the classes to match that.

Clear in my eyes, are the following tiers.

TIER: LEVELS
Student (≈ college level): 1−4
Professional: 5−8
Master (≈ celebrities of cities and small nations): 9−12
Grandmaster (≈ international celebrities): 13−16
Legend (≈ superhuman celebrities across planes): 17−20

 

[Emberashh]

I'm argeeing with you.

Then stop arguing.

 

[Minigiant]

Clear in my eyes, are the following tiers.

TIER: LEVELS
Student (≈ college level): 1−4
Professional: 5−8
Master (≈ celebrities of cities and small nations): 9−12
Grandmaster (≈ international celebrities): 13−16
Legend (≈ interplanar superhuman celebrities): 17−20

That's measures of popularity not power.

The question is if you are level 15 are you

Human
Inhuman (above human. Equal to those on PEDs)
Superhuman (clear breaking the rules)
Myth (making new rules)

 

[Yaarel]

That's measures of popularity not power.

Right, but that clout is suggestive of how good the character is at something. Is the Wizard talked about in the countryside around the city. Or is the entire planet aware of this Wizard.

The question is if you are level 15 are you

Human
Inhuman (above human. Equal to those on PEDs)
Superhuman (clear breaking the rules)
Myth (making new rules)

I feel the Legend tier (17−20) is strictly superhuman.

But in practice with regard to features and spells, the Grandmaster tier (13−16) tends to be superhuman too.

In that context, I would look to peak reallife possibility as a gauge for the Master tier (9−12).

For a strictly low-magic setting I would cap at the Master tier.

 

[Krachek]

D&D fans nor IPs developers never determined what high level is nor looks like.

So when high level emerges and is different from low levels, no one can agree what is wrong and people come in from many angles.

There are numerous way to describe a 20th level character,
a kind of super hero that watch over the world,
a agent or knight at the service of a powerful kingdom,
or a trash character that sometime have problem to pay for a beer in a inn.