D&D (2024) Martial vs Caster: Removing the "Magical Dependencies" of high level.

[Yaarel]

Why not leave that up to the player as long as there is no mechanical effect?

"I was bitten by a radioactive valkyrie"
"I am the reincarnation of a valkyrie"
"I trained in the valkyrie arts and didn't realize I shouldn't have been able to"
"The goddess of the valkyries blessed me"
"Destiny needs me to be a valkyrie"
"Pushups, situps, and plenty of valkyrie juice"

Because most players DONT WANT to create their own setting.

This has always been true. Gygax himself was surprised that players wanted to use his world rather than create their own world.

Obviously, D&D is a game for worldbuilders and character customizers too. (In a way the fallout from the ap-OGL-ypse demonstrated this.)

But there must be a default setting for the other players who want to play in an already developed setting.

 

[Micah Sweet]

How does it come up?

What effect does it have?

The only thing I can see is relevant is if there's a keyword, like to see if anti-magic works or a primal feat applies.

It effects how I design and play my character, if ways beyond the mechanics. This an odd conversation.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Why not leave that up to the player as long as there is no mechanical effect?

"I was bitten by a radioactive valkyrie"
"I am the reincarnation of a valkyrie"
"I trained in the valkyrie arts and didn't realize I shouldn't have been able to"
"The goddess of the valkyries blessed me"
"Destiny needs me to be a valkyrie"
"Pushups, situps, and plenty of valkyrie juice"

Because not everyone wants a bare mechanical skeleton entirely dependent on the player to have any meaning beyond that.

 

[Yaarel]

It effects how I design and play my character, ways beyond the mechanics.

For me too. When I build a character, I have a specific concept in mind, and I pick the mechanics that can best express this character concept.

I sometimes refer to this process as "concept optimization", finding the best mechanics for a concept.

I care about customization because I care about narrative.

 

[Incenjucar]

Because most players DONT WANT to create their own setting.

This has always been true. Gygax himself was surprised that players wanted to use his world rather than create their own world.

Obviously, D&D is a game for worldbuilders and character customizers too. (In a way the fallout from the ap-OGL-ypse demonstrated this.)

But there must be a default setting for the other players who want to play in an already developed setting.

Citation needed. Gygax' experiences are from another century. Tons of people like to make up their own fiction and weave it together with others for a shared world with shared ideas.

 

[Yaarel]

Citation needed. Gygax' experiences are from another century.

I can look for the citation from Gygax. But I feel it is unnecessary because the 5e designers themselves emphasize how important narrative is when making design decisions.

Tons of people like to make up their own fiction and weave it together with others for a shared world with shared ideas.

Yes, I too care about worldbuilding and unique character concepts. Customizability is vital for me.

But my needs dont detract from the needs of other players who really do need a default.

2024 seems to adopt a method of, "Use this, or else use something else of your choosing." This is for character concepts, but it can also apply to worldbuilding. "Use this setting assumption, or something else that you and your DM agree on".

 

[Chaosmancer]

Because you guys still seem to care only about the mechanics, and are "throwing a bone" to the narrative, as if it matters less. And I don't understand that philosophy.

So our answer isn't good enough, because you don't like our design philosophy? And we are supposed to take that as serious reproach to what we are trying to do?

 

[Incenjucar]

I can look for the citation from Gygax. But I feel it is unnecessary because the 5e designers themselves emphasize how important narrative is when making design decisions.

You mean the people whose designs I find dubious half the time?

 

[Chaosmancer]

Some forumers are intentionally obfuscating HOW the Fighter can accomplish magical feats.

So what?

Seriously, so what, we have given you answers. Time and time and time and time and time again. They are never good enough, so why should we be bothered to keep giving you answers?

So far there is zero reference to superhuman abilities.

So in the very first sentence add "MAGICAL ABILITIES FOUND HERE" will that work?

"Will and determination" in reference to superhuman abilities is the Psionic magic of the mind.

So we are done then?

Which is what Ki and Psionic do.

Nope, guess not. We need to keep going.

This sounds like it might be Primal magic relating to ancestral beings, or the soul magic that is Ki or Psionic.

So you acknowledge three different sources, that should be good enough right?

"Faith and fervor of the people" sounds like Divine magic.

Hey, four sources, that should be plenty right?

Intentional obfuscation.

Nope, four different possible magic sources don't matter because I decided to play into the trope of "scholars ask, warriors act" and that means it is bad and wrong to design a class that way. Four answers aren't enough because I need to explicitly decide on only one possible thing... like the sorcerer who has four or five different power sources.

 

[Yaarel]

So our answer isn't good enough, because you don't like our design philosophy? And we are supposed to take that as serious reproach to what we are trying to do?

You prefer the superhuman Fighter to actually be core, yeah? So there is a design space to accommodate superhuman powers.

If so, it is important to appeal to as many players as possible, including the ones who need narrative.