D&D General Monk: The Past, Present, and Questionable Future of an Iconic Class

[nevin]

true but the were divine servants of god. But in DND as a subclass of fighter they just bring almost nothing to the table. Seem kind've pointless to me.

 

[nevin]

But as I consider that if you made them subclass of Cleric with only self healing other than say medical kits and gave them divine smite or some such powers that could be something fun. No spells but all the fun stuff would be 'gifts' to reward thier devout holiness. And if they are western monks then simple weapons are all on the table. If I were going to do that i'd give them DEX and WIS to armor bonus and STR and WIS to Damage. as the reward for not wearing armor. Put on Armor and go to standard combat rules. D10 hitpoints would probably be appropriate as well if that were the way you were going.

 

[Voadam]

true but the were divine servants of god. But in DND as a subclass of fighter they just bring almost nothing to the table. Seem kind've pointless to me.

Was Remo Williams in the novels a divine servant of God?

In the movie he just learned intense cool martial arts from a Korean martial arts master.

 

[Voadam]

In 2e a bunch of the optional monk class options were full caster priests with martial arts, whether a priest kit or a full priest class.

 

[Raiztt]

I certainly think D&D needs room for a class or option for people who want to play out the fantasy-archetype of the hero that fights with their hands - I just think that monk is actually so problematic that it needs to be retooled completely.

Monk is by far the most 'specifically influenced' class - there is exactly one (1) order of monks that practice martial arts and that is the Shaolin.

 

[nevin]

Was Remo Williams in the novels a divine servant of God?

In the movie he just learned intense cool martial arts from a Korean martial arts master.

He had all hallmarks of the Eastern Ki monk. They could have been infernal powers , or just Batman powers but they were definitely not anything in the realm of mortal. Comic book, Divine, Infernal, or Alien you take your pick but he was waaaaaay beyond human.

 

[nevin]

I certainly think D&D needs room for a class or option for people who want to play out the fantasy-archetype of the hero that fights with their hands - I just think that monk is actually so problematic that it needs to be retooled completely.

Monk is by far the most 'specifically influenced' class - there is exactly one (1) order of monks that practice martial arts and that is the Shaolin.

true but even Eastern myths are full of "monks" with special abilities as martial arts masters with superpowers. We are talking about the ideas that influenced the monk class not the reality of the monks who in most instances, Western and Eastern are simple holy men not much different than Nuns.

 

[Raiztt]

Western and Eastern are simple holy men not much different than Nuns.

Nuns are female christian monastics. It's not that they're "not much different" - they are the same thing.

 

[nevin]

OMG Just occurred to me. In real world monastaries are where you send the holy men and women who probably all suck at politics and would simply not stand for stuff that happens in the leadership of a church.

So what if Monks are just that. The Holy Men and Women who live simple lives help where they can but if necessary can come kick ass and clean out the corruption as needed. I imagine history if everytime a pope had crossed the line their god sent in Monks and Paladins to deal with the mess.

 

[Deset Gled]

Well that's because the western monk was obviously divine but a lot of people overlook the oriental monk is completly divine. The entire idea of the eastern monk is someone who follows the edicts of heaven and as a result become's one with reality.
...
But if you are looking at myths and historical monks there aren't any western one's or oriental ones that i know of that aren't divine.

Now some people like martial arts movies and want the monk to be Bruce Lee. Problem is Bruce Lee at his most bad ass kind've sucks in any DND version past level 6.

What? Remo Willams and Bruce Lee have already been mentioned and have no religious aspects at all. Beyond that, here's a list of religion-free (or at least religion-lite) monks:

Jackie Chan
Super Sentai
Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon
Kung Fu Hustle
Hero
Chuck Norris
The Bride (Kill Bill)
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
The Karate Kid

And that's just off the top of my head. Thinking back to all the exploitation/low budget kung fu movies movies I've seen, religion is very rarely brought up. It's not even a topic of discussion in many martial artist movies. It may get mentioned in a lot of media. But it's a ridiculously huge stretch to say that the monk is "completely divine". Just because that's your preferred version doesn't mean it's the only interpretation.

Errr... Friar Tuck, as much as I can remember, is literally a fat christian monastic drunk. He's not a fighter/combatant in any way.

Depends a lot on the adaptation.

Spoiler: Hiding in-line video

He fights with Robin in the Errol Flynn version, and is commended for his combat skill. He kills a dude in Prince of Thieves.