D&D General Extra Credits: The History of D&D Hasbro Refused to Learn

[Autumnal]

It’s possible that some point in the mid-90s, the tabletop and LARP versions combined were outselling D&D on occasion. But I don’t have a way of checking that now, only the related info that some print runs of Laws Of.. books, the LARP lines, were as large or larger than for the tabletop books. So no claim here of anything like sufficient sales clue - notice just how many caveats I can shovel in.

 

[MNblockhead]

Listening to that podcast now, thanks for the rec.

Totally badass.

Did they just stop after four episodes, with the last being almost exactly a year ago, or did they move to Spotify or some other paywalled platform?

 

[Azzy]

White Wolf Magazine didn't start publishing until 1986, the year after Gygax had been forced out of TSR. If TSR stole anything from them (this is the first I've heard of such, but I'm interested in details!), I can't imagine that he had anything to do with it.

They probably meant White Dwarf magazine (which was first published in the UK in, like, '77 or thereabout). I don't recall anything being "stolen", but many of the monsters in the 1e Fiend Folio were first published in WD (and were credited to their original creators).

 

[Parmandur]

Did they just stop after four episodes, with the last being almost exactly a year ago, or did they move to Spotify or some other paywalled platform?

I can't find anything past those 4, so I'm not sure what happened there: production delays, legal issues...?

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

I remember in the end of the 90's when translations to Spanish languange stopped, and then World of Darkness became the most popular TTRPGs in Spain.

If Hasbro earns money with D&D we shouldn't be too surprised if in the future they are interested into the acquistion of new IPs. Someones could be IPs by 3PPs what can't survive in the industry for more time.

 

[Dire Bare]

Pathfinder did not outsell D&D 4E . . . ever. I also highly doubt any White Wolf games ever outsold D&D.

Teos Abadia just posted a blog post on the subject, it's a good read IMO.

Pathfinder Never Outsold 4E D&D (ICYMI)

The myth that Paizo's Pathfinder outsold Dungeons & Dragons 4E endures, but it is a myth worth slaying.

alphastream.org

 

[Nikosandros]

Pathfinder did not outsell D&D 4E . . . ever. I also highly doubt any White Wolf games ever outsold D&D.

Teos Abadia just posted a blog post on the subject, it's a good read IMO.

Pathfinder Never Outsold 4E D&D (ICYMI)

The myth that Paizo's Pathfinder outsold Dungeons & Dragons 4E endures, but it is a myth worth slaying.

alphastream.org

Yeah, I read that just yesterday. People in the know have been saying that for a while now, but the myth endures. Teos explains quite well, IMHO, why it is so.

 

[Zardnaar]

Pathfinder did not outsell D&D 4E . . . ever. I also highly doubt any White Wolf games ever outsold D&D.

Teos Abadia just posted a blog post on the subject, it's a good read IMO.

Pathfinder Never Outsold 4E D&D (ICYMI)

The myth that Paizo's Pathfinder outsold Dungeons & Dragons 4E endures, but it is a myth worth slaying.

alphastream.org

Depends how you count it and context.

Lisa claimed on one of the retroactives by 2010 anecdotally PF was outselling 4E.

Ivc2 made it official in qp11 iirc. She never claimed PF outsold 4E overall.

Thus was when Pathfinder Society was replacing D&D organized play in various locations.

So it's outsold at specific point in time according to Lisa/Icv2.

Some interesting sales data in that link though. 800k-1million phb by 2017.

Pokémon outsold everything that's not B/X and 1E apparently.

 

[darjr]

Depends how you count it and context.

Lisa claimed on one of the retroactives by 2010 anecdotally PF was outselling 4E.

Ivc2 made it official in qp11 iirc. She never claimed PF outsold 4E overall.

Thus was when Pathfinder Society was replacing D&D organized play in various locations.

So it's outsold at specific point in time according to Lisa/Icv2.

Some interesting sales data in that link though. 800k-1million phb by 2017.

Pokémon outsold everything that's not B/X and 1E apparently.

This.

Teos article is very good and he does bring up important points but I’m not convinced he’s demolished ICV2 numbers nor made them irrelevant and he should have talked to Lisa Stephens.

 

[Staffan]

There's a difference between "Pathfinder sold more than 4e" and e.g. "Pathfinder sold more than 4e in Q3 2012". Without actual sales data, the second one seems far more likely, particularly since 4e releases had basically stopped at that time.