D&D General DMs Guild and DriveThruRPG ban AI written works, requires labels for AI generated art

[Maxperson]

I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying. If you take away the database AI uses, it can't produce anything. A person still can. A person can create something without any reference. Secondly, take away my computer, or my paintbrush, and I can still create. Take away your AI prompt and you can't. Those are significant and fundamental differences, and why you can't just "put a seat at the table for AI prompters along with actual artists".

Using a CnC machine doesn't make me a woodcarver. Using AI doesn't make you an artist.

It's not entirely equal, no. Though I'd say that if I took away all of your memories and experiences you wouldn't be able to create art without learning from new experiences which would eventually include art from various sources.

That last sentence, though, is why I think that no matter how this pans out, artists(at least the very good ones) will still have a lot of value. The AI generated art won't have the same skill. It's not going to be using paint brushes in the way that an expert artist will.

 

[Charlaquin]

Hic rhodus, hic salta; if you think it’s so easy then go spit out something great (no, really.) People say the same thing about prose writing, photography, and modern art, because they can imagine doing the basic physical action; if people started out with perfect manual dexterity then they’d think traditional painting was easy (it still wouldn’t be, there are many other skills involved.)

Except prose writing, photography, and modern art are all actual skill-intensive art forms. “Promptcraft” () is not.

Obviously you don’t mean this in the way that I do, but this is a good summary of my major claim here - that SD and the like are media in which humans work.

If your claim is that human input is required to make AI generate results that aren’t garbage, that’s just a statement of fact. If your claim is that said input constitutes an art form, that’s patently absurd.

(“Fundamentally” I would actually say is false, human brains are physical objects, but once machines can really do every part of the workflow we have much bigger worries than anything to do with the art industry.)

Saying “once the machines can really do every part of the workflow” is like saying “once my dog can really talk.” It belies a deep fundamental misunderstanding of how either human brains, AI, or both work.

 

[Reynard]

I wonder if the thing that freaks some people out is that the tools are creating things that are novel. They aren't copies. They aren't collages. They are truly unique creations. If you take a breath and think about that, it's really quite astounding. Unsettling even.

 

[Charlaquin]

This smacks of elitism. I have a degree in engineering technology and I assure you it take skill, intelligence and creativity to use a CNC machine. You might not be a woodcarver by some exclusionary definition but you are still doing something real.

I am a woodworker by hobby and I've used both. Using a CNC to carve doesn't make a person a woodcarver. No more than placing a request using a food replicator in Star Trek would make one a chef.

Using a CNC machine to good effect is certainly a skill, perhaps arguably even an art form. It’s just a very different skill/art form than woodcarving.

 

[Reynard]

Using a CNC machine to good effect is certainly a skill, perhaps arguably even an art form. It’s just a very different skill/art form than woodcarving.

Sure but they are being dismissive, even doubling down with the replicator remark.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Sure but they are being dismissive, even doubling down with the replicator remark.

Tell ya what. Go ask actual artists if someone using midjourney makes them an artist like they are. Tell me what sort of responses you get. This isn't me being dismissive. This is me pointing out something that is pretty obvious. You called me an elitist, and quite frankly, the statement or inference that AI prompters are just like artists is pretty darn insulting to actual artists. Pointing that out doesn't make me elitist.

 

[Lanefan]

In 5 minutes on Zillow, I found this house in Canada for $125k. I am sure I could find one for half that if I really looked hard enough:

33 Pine Cres, Fort Smith, NT X0E 0P0 | Zillow

33 Pine Cres, Fort Smith NT, is a Single Family home that contains 1100 sq ft and was built in 1979.It contains 3 bedrooms and 1 bathroom.

www.zillow.com

Not exactly close to anything, though, and the generally very high cost of living in the Northwest Territories (basic things like food are often double the price due to the costs involved in shipping it up there) will soon enough wipe out whatever you saved on buying the house.

 

[Charlaquin]

I wonder if the thing that freaks some people out is that the tools are creating things that are novel. They aren't copies. They aren't collages. They are truly unique creations. If you take a breath and think about that, it's really quite astounding. Unsettling even.

A chimpanzee with a typewriter can produce something novel, but that doesn’t mean the novel thing it produces will have any artistic value. Novelty isn’t all that special per se. What is impressive about AI is its seeming ability to produce content that is both novel and meaningful. I say seeming because the meaningful part is all the product of human labor. Without a robust dataset of quality, human-made art, the AI produce a bunch of novel garbage. Without a human creating prompts and applying judgement to the results, the AI produce novel garbage. All of the actual artistry is still coming from people.

 

[Maxperson]

Tell ya what. Go ask actual artists if someone using midjourney makes them an artist like they are. Tell me what sort of responses you get. This isn't me being dismissive. This is me pointing out something that is pretty obvious. You called me an elitist, and quite frankly, the statement or inference that AI prompters are just like artists is pretty darn insulting to actual artists. Pointing that out doesn't make me elitist.

That's the elitist part. What you are doing is like saying that someone who uses synthesizers to make music isn't making music because they aren't playing the instruments themself. A lot of people don't consider modern art to be art. During the 19th century photography wasn't considered to be art. You were just taking a picture.

If I have a vision for a piece of art and I use AI to achieve MY vision, that's art whether you want to admit it or not. It's not the same type of art as a painting. It's not the same kind of art as someone using pencils. But it is art.

 

[Lanefan]

Probably true in the case of an adventure, but I think you'd be surprised how long it takes to effectively edit a lot of gaming material.

Writing my own adventures and-or editing (in process of converting to suit my system) other peoples' adventures is as close as I've got to writing gaming material.

Writing takes longer, and it's not even close, mostly due to the not-writing bits e.g. maps (I'm a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to maps, so when I'm doing a digital map I'll work right down to the pixel-by-pixel level if I have to, to get it right). But if all I have to do is tweak someone else's module and reskin/restat the monsters: piece of cake.