D&D General What is player agency to you?

[soviet]

no, there is no action ‘I get an audience’, there only is an action ‘I request an audience’, just like there is no action ‘I hit the orc’, only an ‘I attack the orc’.

As soon as NPCs are involved it no longer is through the char’s action declaration only.

It's an action initiated by the character (rather than some entirely abstract narration) but I accept yours and maxperson's point that there is element of ensuring a particular result as well.

 

[Vaalingrade]

If I say “My character goes to the inn” how is that not narrative control?

I think you mean 'My character attempts to go to the inn.'.

How dare you take the DM's right to decide if any of your actions succeed.

what if you're character was in the dimension of fried shrimp and there is no inn, huh? What about that?

 

[soviet]

Who decides when a fact is pre-established?

It's been said at the table, written down in the GM's notes, or definitively decided by the GM in advance. But not 'I guess they would have...' reasoning after the fact.

Because as far as D&D is concerned "The DM creates a world for the other players to explore" amongst many other clearly stated statements of the roles in the game.

I agree, probably just not in the way you mean. I'm not going to not allow an ability simply on a whim or because I "don't want" the player to use that ability. It will be because there are factors that prevent it from working.

The GM's motive doesn't matter. Agency was either denied, or not.

Remember that agency isn't necessarily the only goal of all roleplaying.

 

[soviet]

My character attempts to use his mind to attempt to move his legs to attempt to cross what appears to be the distance between what appears to be his body and what appears to be an inn-like structure that appears to be a short distance away.

 

[mamba]

The Noble Feature and similar allow me to declare that I seek an audience. The DM should be obliged to grant that, barring sufficient circumstances.

the circumstances do a lot of heavy lifting here. Also, that is what ‘we’ are saying, ‘your side’ insists that there is no such thing as sufficient circumstances. That is what ‘we’ are arguing against

Why wouldn’t they be roleplayed? It can all be roleplayed out. The ability doesn’t prevent that.

but it does make it unnecessary

 

[mamba]

My character attempts to use his mind to attempt to move his legs to attempt to cross what appears to be the distance between what appears to be his body and what appears to be an inn-like structure that appears to be a short distance away.

and any of those attempts can fail, they are just not likely to, so we generally find a shorter way of saying this

 

[mamba]

It's an action initiated by the character (rather than some entirely abstract narration) but I accept yours and maxperson's point that there is element of ensuring a particular result as well.

agreed, it is initiated by the char / player, the difference is that the outcome is not ensured by them as well. In your version it is, in mine it isn’t, even though both versions result in the same outcome most of the time

 

[mamba]

The GM's motive doesn't matter. Agency was either denied, or not.

me saying ‘no, you do not lift off and fly just because you are flapping your arms real fast’ is not denying agency. Not everything a char attempts has to work for the char to have agency.

If you say the player has less agency because of that, be my guest, I simply do not see that as a bad thing in and off itself

 

[CreamCloud0]

What’s the difference?

If I say “My character goes to the inn” how is that not narrative control?

with agency you can only go to the inn if it exists there, it could be phrased as 'i try to find an inn', you're only determining what your character does,
with narrative control you're saying 'there is an inn that exists and i am going there', you're determining the world outside your character

 

[soviet]

me saying ‘no, you do not lift off and fly just because you are flapping your arms real fast’ is not denying agency. Not everything a char attempts has to work for the char to have agency.

My post clearly started with the statement that the character had the relevant ability.

Note also that this is yet another assumption of childish bad faith on the part of the player.