D&D General What is player agency to you?

[mamba]

Do the rules say so?

yes they do, @Maxperson posted some excerpts just a few posts up

"And as a referee, the DM interprets the rules and decides when to abide by them and when to change them."

And…

"The D&D rules help you and the other players have a good time, but the rules aren't in charge. You're the DM, and you are in charge of the game."

and more

 

[Mort]

Do the rules say so? What I see is "You can secure an audience with a local noble if you need to." There's been argument as to what "local" means but nothing as that's written says anything more about anyone cooperating than the fireball spell description does.

I mean, there are circumstances.

With spells for example: you could be in an area of anti magic. Or, more directly, the spell could be counterspelled.

So for the noble ability equivalent, the DM could say -

1. No one sees the noble your requested, pick a different one (essentially anti magic);

2. your petition/request is being actively blocked (essentially a counterspell).

I, personally, wouldn't have a problem with either - ESPECIALLY if they led somewhere interesting ( if every/ near every petition gets answered like that, and there is never a payoff - that would be a problem)

 

[pointofyou]

yes they do, @Maxperson posted some excerpts just a few posts up

Nothing generates more fun at the table than a player looking at an absolute statement that "You can secure an audience with a local noble if you have to" and the DM saying "Nope."

 

[pointofyou]

I mean, there are circumstances.

With spells for example: you could be in an area of anti magic. Or, more directly, the spell could be counterspelled.

So for the noble ability equivalent, the DM could say -

1. No one sees the noble your requested, pick a different one (essentially anti magic);

2. your petition/request is being actively blocked (essentially a counterspell).

I, personally, wouldn't have a problem with either - ESPECIALLY if they led somewhere interesting ( if every/ near every petition gets answered like that, and there is never a payoff - that would be a problem)

My feeling is that any such flat negation would need to be grounded in something already established. Turn the audience into a rat's nest of complications or make it a difficult situation or whatever but if the rules say the PC can arrange an audience I say let the PC arrange the flipping audience.

 

[mamba]

Nothing generates more fun at the table than a player looking at an absolute statement that "You can secure an audience with a local noble if you have to" and the DM saying "Nope."

the question we are discussing is not how much the players like it, but whether the DM can…

 

[soviet]

the question we are discussing is not how much the players like it, but whether the DM can…

That has literally never been the subject of this discussion.

 

[pointofyou]

the question we are discussing is not how much the players like it, but whether the DM can…

Would you suggest a DM is within their rights to flatly negate some otherwise unremarkable casting of fireball without there being some prior established reason to do so?

 

[mamba]

That has literally never been the subject of this discussion.

and again you are reading a different thread from me…. I am not going through 50 pages again to prove you wrong, but you very much are

 

[mamba]

Would you suggest a DM is within their rights to flatly negate some otherwise unremarkable casting of fireball without there being some prior established reason to do so?

this is a very vague sentence, so there is a lot to navigate, but in general, yes, the DM can interfere, absolutely

Does ‘previously established’ include ‘the players are aware of’?
What makes a casting remarkable? Maybe this one is for me, but not for you… one I consider unremarkable? The DM would have no reason to, so they wouldn’t (which is not the same as not having the right to…)

The problem isn’t when the DM does so once or twice, it only turns into one when it happens ‘frequently’ and for no good reason

 

[Mort]

My feeling is that any such flat negation would need to be grounded in something already established. Turn the audience into a rat's nest of complications or make it a difficult situation or whatever but if the rules say the PC can arrange an audience I say let the PC arrange the flipping audience.

I mostly agree.

But, I make room for interesting shenanigans.