D&D General What is player agency to you?

[FrogReaver]

reduce, relative to the alternative

IMO. one either has agency or one does not.

 

[Raiztt]

they did, they said the efreet is curious simply because of your being there, so you get your audience

But how did they ask? Like, what low level grunt let that get up the chain? The king might be curious but unless they saw him on the street they have to ask someone to ask him. And the person they probably find is going to need to ask someone to ask the king for him. How does it actually work?

 

[FrogReaver]

But how did they ask? Like, what low level grunt let that get up the chain? The king might be curious but unless they saw him on the street they have to ask someone to ask him. And the person they probably find is going to need to ask someone to ask the king for him. How does it actually work?

I think you've got your starting point. The rest isn't really that difficult to work out. Though it does require the assumption that the PC's say or do certain things to perk enough curiosity.

 

[Maxperson]

they did, they said the efreet is curious simply because of your being there, so you get your audience

That has nothing to do with the background ability, though. An urchin rogue could also pique its curiosity.

 

[Raiztt]

I think you've got your starting point. The rest isn't really that difficult to work out. Though it does require the assumption that the PC's say certain things to perk enough curiosity.

Nah that's a cop out. This is just hand waving without actually explaining how this fits into the world fiction. The PC marches up to a palace guard who is, what, a low level type of genie and demands to see the king? And I am to believe that a common elemental guard is going to care enough to go through all the work to help someone who he probably thinks is insane contact the king? So that the guard can be executed for dereliction of his duties???

Anyone is free to run their game however they wish - obviously - so much of this is moot. But for me, in my games, things follow the PSR. They don't just happen for no reason or without some coherent explanation.

 

[mamba]

IMO. one either has agency or one does not.

If you end up in prison but can decide to walk in the courtyard wherever you want for an hour, do you have agency? If you are under house arrest and can do whatever you want (except leave the country), but need to wear an ankle bracelet and have to let them know where you are twice a day, do you have agency? Do you feel you have the same amount of agency in both cases? I don't see agency as binary

 

[Raiztt]

If you end up in prison but can decide to walk in the court wherever you want for an hour, do you have agency? If you are under house arrest and can do whatever you want, but need to wear an ankle bracelet and have to let them know where you are twice a day, do you have agency? Do you feel you have the same amount of agency in both cases? I don't see agency is binary

It is binary, but it's just really hard to get rid of it completely. Depending on your philosophical preferences "agency" does not require much.

For example... if a person is the source of their action and they could have done otherwise, then they have agency.

 

[soviet]

If you end up in prison but can decide to walk in the courtyard wherever you want for an hour, do you have agency? If you are under house arrest and can do whatever you want (except leave the country), but need to wear an ankle bracelet and have to let them know where you are twice a day, do you have agency? Do you feel you have the same amount of agency in both cases? I don't see agency as binary

Those are interesting metaphors for your players!

 

[FrogReaver]

If you end up in prison but can decide to walk in the court wherever you want for an hour, do you have agency?

Agency with respect to what? I would have 100% agency to walk wherever I want in the court(yard). I wouldn't have agency to go to the court(yard) anytime i want. Also, I did exercise agency to end up in prison in the first place, by commiting whatever crime I was convicted of to be sent here.

If you are under house arrest and can do whatever you want, but need to wear an ankle bracelet and have to let them know where you are twice a day, do you have agency?

This one is easier. I have agency to: I can cut off the ankle bracelet and run. I can not call and check in twice a day - perhaps even have someone else call and pretend to be me. What i don't have is agency to be free from consequence for doing those things.

Do you feel you have the same amount of agency in both cases? I don't see agency is binary

Depends on with respect to what.

 

[hawkeyefan]

There are no such rules in 5e. The SPECIFIC DMG portions give the DM the authority to change any rule. The rules SPECIFICALLY serve him and not the other way around.

I mean, that's an interpretation, I suppose.

But if we're talking about rules serving the DM rather than the group as a whole, tell me what that means for player agency?

And that's our point. If the ability fails for good reasons every now and then, it's no big deal and nothing to get up in arms about.

Right. But so far, all examples are hypotheticals. They're all being proposed through the lens of justifying the DM's authority. No one has offered any examples from actual play.

Look at your example of a god coming down and shutting down healing magic. I mean, if this has anything to do with the players, then they know about it, so the failure would be obvious. If it's unknown to the players... then I have to ask why this is happening?

It sounds more like the DM's plot is blocking the player's idea.

That sounds horrible. It means that there will be times when it makes absolutely no sense for it to happen, but it ridiculously happens anyway. For some tables that don't care about that sort of thing it works out fine, but for other tables where they want the world to make sense, it doesn't work out fine at all.

Why would that be? It's all made up. Surely we can think of ways to make it work instead of denying it. That's the point.

There is no "world"... it's not real. Be creative. Make it work.

And you'd still be very, very wrong.

Then offer some examples from actual play. Not hypotheticals that lack details, not absurd edge cases, not DM plot... talk about a time you did this in play and how it worked and why you think that's good.

I'll even broaden this to any player proposed ideas beyond just the background features. Share an example from play of a player making a reasonable request, and you shot it down.

We're talking about how D&D plays. You can't just ignore a significant portion of the game that has a huge impact on how the ability plays out just because we're talking about player agency.

Sure I can. In my experience, that's not really the way the game works. The game typically works with folks actually following the rules. So all that stuff about the rules serving the DM... they're just there in the book. They're guidelines. I don't choose to follow them, generally speaking.