D&D General What is player agency to you?

[FrogReaver]

There is no time and space in a non-existent fantasy world, therefor it cannot be elided.

...Next your going to tell me there's no bards either

 

[FrogReaver]

ok, I am out then, just trying to clear up what I perceive as a confusion between you two

I know you were trying to be helpful.

 

[mamba]

As I just said - "uninformed is sufficient to make a choice meaningless, but not necessary to do so.”

then I disagree. Opening the door with the treasure vs the dragon is clearly meaningful, even if you had nothing to go on

You winning the lottery is meaningful, at least to me it would be, and yet it was just random chance if you did

 

[FrogReaver]

then I disagree. Opening the door with the treasure vs the dragon is clearly meaningful, even if you had nothing to go on

You winning the lottery is meaningful, at least to me it would be, and yet it was just random chance if you did

Do you agree there's a difference between meaningful outcome and meaningful choice?

 

[mamba]

Do you agree there's a difference between meaningful outcome and meaningful choice?

no, that is why I suggested uninformed instead.

If the outcome is meaningful, then so was choosing the outcome, however you did that

Or to stick with the lottery analogy, if you won the lottery, would you consider filling out the winning ticket important / meaningful? I sure as hell would

 

[FrogReaver]

no, that is why I suggested uninformed instead.

If the outcome is meaningful, then so was choosing the outcome, however you did that

Just to be clear, you think the choice of which number to pick at the roulette table is a meaningful choice? Playing roulette or not playing it - sure. But which number you pick when playing it?

 

[mamba]

Just to be clear, you think the choice of which number to pick at the roulette table is a meaningful choice?

see my edit

“Or to stick with the lottery analogy, if you won the lottery, would you consider filling out the winning ticket important / meaningful? I sure as hell would”

 

[FrogReaver]

see my edit

“Or to stick with the lottery analogy, if you won the lottery, would you consider filling out the winning ticket important / meaningful? I sure as hell would”

see mine
'Playing roulette or not playing it - sure. But which number you pick when playing it?'

 

[mamba]

see mine
'Playing roulette or not playing it - sure. But which number you pick when playing it?'

yes, picking the number is meaningful

If you told me ‘the winning number on this wheel is always 15, you are allowed to pick any number but 15’, then it would no longer be meaningful, until then…

 

[FrogReaver]

yes, picking the number is meaningful

Okay, so a couple of things.
1. Deciding what number to pick in roulette isn't an uninformed choice. You know all the numbers and all the odds. That's as informed as you can get.
2. I would still call it a meaningless choice, but let's not fight about what to call it for the moment.

Instead I want to point out
A) My pushback on your suggestion that I simply mean uninformed choice is due to 1 and 2. I don't simply mean uninformed choice.
B) Do you understand the concept I'm invoking and just disagree with the words I use to describe it or do you not understand the concept I'm invoking? If you do understand the concept then what words would you use to describe it?