Unpopular opinions go here

[Ulfgeir]

Back when i was a teenager, we had some retired Irish relatives visit our place in Australia.

Mum made spaghetti with meat sauce. It had garlic in it. They literally couldn't finish it because it was too spicy.

Well, when I worked in Ireland in 1996, I cam to the realization that the Irish took the two worst things the English had to offer: The way they built houses, and the way they made their food.

Houses: What do you mean insulation? Solid concrete walls are perfect. 3-glaze windows being unheard of in older buildings, 2-glaze buing a luxuary, a carpet in the bathroom, and we put the waterlines on the outside so they are easier to reach WHEN they freeze. If they had put them iside and used insulation they would not freeze

Food: very fatty, and spices being unheard of. (The no spice things, also is applicable to traditional Swedish food)


The spice thing is strange, because mediaeval England had lots of herbs as spices, and they knew of things like ginger and pepper etc. And then you got the British empire, spanning the globe, so they really should have had access to tons of spices, whichs they wouldn't use.. What gives?

 

[payn]

I can tell you one thing that non-Southerners put sugar in that most Southerners do not: cornbread. In the South, cornbread is savory and not sweet. Many Southerners even complain that cornbread outside of the South more closely resembles a sweet "cake" than what we consider proper savory cornbread. I also know that expat Southerners and non-Southerners often have difficulties replicating Southern cornbread, and there is a reason for that: the corn meal. Yes, the South uses different corn meal than you can find elsewhere in the United States and likewise here in Austria. Southern corn meal is naturally sweeter and thus doesn't need sugar added for making cornbread. (IME, honey will typically be favored over sugar to sweeten cornbread.) This is why I sometimes have my relatives ship me cornmeal from home. It makes a real difference in taste.

I have spent a lot of time perfecting my cornbread skillet recipe. You are correct, the corn meal is the secret. Here in yankee country mostly its Jiffy or some knock off meal thats like the floor sweepings. Then, they add massive amounts of sugar or vanilla extract etc... A good recipe should need very little sugar, let the good ingredients do the work.

A friend of mine is really into smoking meats. He asked me to whip up some of my cornbread to go along with some ribs he was doing for a competition. I didnt plan to enter my bread into the competition, but I won anyways after some folks tried it. Was pretty sweet

 

[humble minion]

The spice thing is strange, because mediaeval England had lots of herbs as spices, and they knew of things like ginger and pepper etc. And then you got the British empire, spanning the globe, so they really should have had access to tons of spices, whichs they wouldn't use.. What gives?

A book of food history i read argued that it was the British period of isolation in the Napoleonic wars that largely set the trend (and then WWII rationing did their cuisine no favours by homogenising everything in the name of central distribution and standardisation so a lot of local specialties like cheese varieties were lost or nearly so, and a generation of kids grew up with very limited experience of food that wasn't monotonous and bland, and tended to dislike strong or piquant flavours in later life as a result)

Particularly during the Napoleonic era, you have this very localist movement, not just in food. You have the picturesque movement in art, for instance, as British travellers can no longer travel to the great cities of Europe and instead look around their own country for bucolic scenery to enjoy. Wartime patriotism mixed with necessity. Fashion goes the same way - rather than following Paris fashions, English dress starts to branch out on its own. Men's clothing in particular - while breeches were still the thing in Europe, trousers were popularised as elegant mens' clothing in this period by Beau Brummell, who moved in the Prince of Wales' social circles (although in a turnabout, the Prince himself is held in disdain for his over-gaudy taste in an culture where restraint was held as a virtue). And it was the same with food. Things like onions, garlic, chilli, tomatoes, olives etc were much harder to get hold of as they grew better in the warmer European countries. But in general (although conspicuously not in the Regent's household), there was a reaction against (what was seen as) frou-frou fiddly French-style cooking in favour of (what was seen as) good honest simple no-nonsense English food - with much less embellishment. You can even see a touch of this attitude in Austen - there's a scene in Pride and Prejudice where Elizabeth Bennet meets a man who is stated to be indolent and self-indulgent - and Austen demonstrates this by showing him turning up his nose at Elizabeth when she claims to prefer a (virtuously?) plain dish instead of a (dubiously foreign?) ragout.

I'm sure they still did a bunch with herbs - parsley sage rosemary and thyme - and marjoram, dill, etc - and pepper to a degree. But most spices seemed to have ended up in dessert dishes along with the vast amount of sugar from the Caribbean colonies - ginger snaps, cinnamon rolls, allspice in puddings and so on

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Is this an unpopular opinions thread, or a foodie #humblebrag thread?

I know it's an unpopular opinion, but I'm really not a fan of those California Roll poseurs.

 

[deganawida]

I agree to an extent, but I think that is over-accentuated as a result of sweet tea. Sweet tea includes a LOT of sugar. The higher extreme tends to be what a few of my friends have referred to as "church sweet," which is the extraordinarily sweet tea made by the old ladies in the local churches.

IME, a LOT of southern meals lean on copious amounts of savory vegetables. We eat more meat nowadays due to accessibility, but meat was generally more of a special occasion thing. Despite how many restaurants emphasize the meat, that's often the "special side" in Southern cuisine. The vegetable or fruit dishes are where it's at! However, we do use a lot animal fat (and butter!) to flavor our dishes. Southern green beans, for example, are often slow cooked with fatback, salt pork, or some other variation of lardon.

I can tell you one thing that non-Southerners put sugar in that most Southerners do not: cornbread. In the South, cornbread is savory and not sweet. Many Southerners even complain that cornbread outside of the South more closely resembles a sweet "cake" than what we consider proper savory cornbread. I also know that expat Southerners and non-Southerners often have difficulties replicating Southern cornbread, and there is a reason for that: the corn meal. Yes, the South uses different corn meal than you can find elsewhere in the United States and likewise here in Austria. Southern corn meal is naturally sweeter and thus doesn't need sugar added for making cornbread. (IME, honey will typically be favored over sugar to sweeten cornbread.) This is why I sometimes have my relatives ship me cornmeal from home. It makes a real difference in taste.

Re: Vegetables. Absolutely true. My wife is originally from Detroit, and, despite learning how to cook from my grandmother, still thinks every meal should be heavy meat. That’s why, when my folks cook for the extended family, I pig out on all the veggies and barely touch the meat.

Re: corn meal. Same with flour. It’s why you can’t get real biscuits outside of the South. Different type of flour. For those not from the South, and want to taste the difference, see if you can find White Lily in the stores.

 

[payn]

Is this an unpopular opinions thread, or a foodie #humblebrag thread?

I know it's an unpopular opinion, but I'm really not a fan of those California Roll poseurs.

The Philly roll is no better.

 

[payn]

Re: Vegetables. Absolutely true. My wife is originally from Detroit, and, despite learning how to cook from my grandmother, still thinks every meal should be heavy meat. That’s why, when my folks cook for the extended family, I pig out on all the veggies and barely touch the meat.

Re: corn meal. Same with flour. It’s why you can’t get real biscuits outside of the South. Different type of flour. For those not from the South, and want to taste the difference, see if you can find White Lily in the stores.

For folks in yank country that want quality baked goods, look for specialty shops and food co-ops. Yes, you will spend a little more on the products, but your family and friends will love you for it. (Sad thing is I live in "Mill City" where we have museums of our flour mills. Most stores carry floor sweeping garbage products )

 

[deganawida]

For folks in yank country that want quality baked goods, look for specialty shops and food co-ops. Yes, you will spend a little more on the products, but your family and friends will love you for it. (Sad thing is I live in "Mill City" where we have museums of our flour mills. Most stores carry floor sweeping garbage products )

Just don’t go looking for real barbecue in eastern PA or central NJ. Closest we could find the three years in LHV was Dickie’s. We did order our Christmas dinners from there, though.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

The Philly roll is no better.

The purpose of cream cheese is to allow people to try food without tasting it.

 

[Maxperson]

The Philly roll is no better.

Now the hay roll...