Unpopular opinions go here

[Hussar]

What you are saying here is reasonable but it is also reasonable to draw a comparison to point buy in that, this sort of change does feel to some like it is removing an important class based character choice in character creation and shifting it to customizable attribute bonuses. There is nothing wrong with games that let you do that. But a lot of people like how in D&D those kinds of character creation choices tend to be tied to race and class selection

It’s also reasonable to compare female strength limits too…

 

[Cadence]

Whoosh. Now THAT is a slippery slope argument. Impressive.

I mean, I wasn't trying to be subtle.

But I assumed you would say sure, because obviously your game preferences aren't based on restricting what others can do.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I’m sorry. Your game design preference is based on telling other people that they can only play the game the way you feel it should be played.

And you think I’m framing this too negatively?

No my game design preference is based on how I like D&D when I play it. The game is going to have constraints on choice in different areas, and differences in style, desires for balance, a sense of what is fun and grants the game playability, these will all inform where people think those constraints should be. I would say, in D&D those constraints around stat bonuses and penalties for demihumans, makes sense, creates balance, ads a sense of fun, ties the races to the implied setting and makes each one distinct. Without that, something in the game is lost for me. My desire to retain those attribute bonuses and penalties has nothing to do with wanting to control other players.

And I think this is a particularly toxic part of the conversation. It is one thing for us to disagree on D&D mechanics. That is normal and part of being involved int he gaming hobby. It is kind of disturbing that people think it is okay to classify that difference of opinion as something this toxic

 

[Bedrockgames]

It’s also reasonable to compare female strength limits too…

I am not asking for female strength limits

 

[Cadence]

It’s also reasonable to compare female strength limits too…

Wait, are we doing an Olympics hard core sim game? I thought this was a heroic fantasy genre-simulator sort of ish game?

 

[Bedrockgames]

And you think I’m framing this too negatively?

Yes, 100%. There is no doubt in my mind this is an overly negative framing of what people are saying here

 

[Bedrockgames]

Wait, are we doing an Olympics hard core sim game? I thought this was a heroic fantasy genre simulator sort of ish game?

I don't understand why the topic is going there. It is an unrelated point. Human females exist in real life. Elves don't. We are talking about packaging racial abilities and bonuses/penalties for mythical races. We have given lots of reasons. But another is accessibility. What made D&D accessible in my experience was rolling stats, then picking race, picking class, having those be the things that largely determine your character. That makes the game accessible IMO. When you start separating those simple components apart from one another, it complicates the game, and I would argue it is going to make it harder for people who don't play D&D to get into D&D

 

[Tony Vargas]

As long as in your D&D game my human sniper can have a Barrett model 82, Spas 12, and ceramic/kevlar armor, my friend Jeff can play a Wookie with a bowcaster, bandolier of grenades, and access to a ship, and my friend Sean can play a Toreador with lots of points in presence and celerity, then it all sounds all good.

The more I think about this....

...the more I wonder if it would ever have been an issue....

....for anyone who doesn't know a Toreador is a V:tM Vampire... as legend has it, we have the Cleric because someone played a Vampire in Arneson's original fantasy game, and someone else wanted to play Van Helsig...

...D&D is a product of the 70s. The 70s had no respect for genre.

 

[Umbran]

Mod Note:
Okay, folks, the level of acrimony is rather too high now. The thread is closed because of it.