D&D (2024) Half Race Appreciation Society: Half Elf most popular race choice in BG3

Do you think Half Elf being most popular BG3 race will cause PHB change?s?

  • Yes, Elf (and possibly other specieses) will get a hybrid option.

    Votes: 10 8.7%
  • Yes, a crunchier hybrid species system will be created

    Votes: 8 7.0%
  • Yes, a fluffier hybrid species system will be created

    Votes: 5 4.3%
  • No, the playtest hybrid rules will move forward

    Votes: 71 61.7%
  • No, hybrids will move to the DMG and setting books.

    Votes: 13 11.3%
  • Other

    Votes: 8 7.0%

I’m confused. I’ve never seen any leftist say anything like that. I could see a dumb 14 year old posting it on tumblr, but otherwise…what?
It is mostly an internal phenomenon. (Though not isolated) The argument is, since "we have to decolonize the culture", that self-identified mestizos are actually just indigenous people who have lost their culture -or white people appropriating-. And yes there was a huge amount of people indigenous people who were left adrift and married outside their ethnic groups/tribes during the early Colonial times, but the European and African intermix is undeniable. A few are indigenous activists, but a lot are scholars and academics who feel white guilt. A more visible exanole to you. There is an upcomming Disney show called Primos and there was a social network reaction in the Spanish internet because of the broken Spanish in the opening theme. The production mostly handled it well, but a VA poster a video in twitter where she was claiming that it didn't matter because she was indigenous and Spanish is a colonizer's language so it had nothing to do with the Latino experience.

Same. I’m probably “whiter” than you, having mostly my Irish mom’s complexion, but yeah we aren’t one thing. We can’t be. i get why some folks feel “half-whatever” is a racist linguistic construction, but…that isn’t a strong enough reason to drop the actual folk from the face of the game, and replace them with “you’re actually either white or Indiginous, even if you look like a mixture of traits”. No. Unacceptable.
I'm a fan of changing the name, but leave the people. (For example an Elvish word that means "child" or Elfin or whatever) But direct erasure?
 

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So, what is wrong with mix-maxing?

And maybe the features will be closely the same.
Min-maxing changes what the game looks like. If Longswords are the best, then people use Longswords. If Old Dirty Bastardswords are best, they will be the weapons people use the most.

The more I think about it, the more questions I have. If the best mixed-species options are acquired by mixing warforged and dragonborn, then the most common cobbled together "species" will be a biomechanical dragonman. A medium-sized mechagodzilla. That is an interesting option to explore, but if most tables have at least one mechagodzilla, that is a weird story narrative for the campaign. Rather if the mixed species option was primarily cosmetic, people would play what makes sense for their campaign setting and the story the player wants to tell. They wouldn't feel pressured to play something whacky because it was the mechanically superior option. I still see people telling others they could have been better if they made better mechanical design choices. Optimizers, min-maxers, munchkins, and mansplainers do that. I am a bit of an optimizer, too, and I have done it in the past. I have had to learn a hard lesson after being confronted in the past. It sucks for people on the other end of the advice. It REALLY does. No one likes being told they are doing it wrong when it isn't wrong.

In our world, humans are humans. Mixed-race humans don't make a new species with different tangible racial abilities. There. Is. No. Mechanical. Difference. In a TTRPG a human can be cosmetically depicted however you want, but they still have the same game mechanic abilities, even if they are malleable like choosing a feat.

I support the concept of Mixed Species options in D&D. I love them. I am mixed but I absolutely despise the narrative of being called "Half" anything. I used them historically in game because that is the language the game used. Looking at genetics, so few people are literally "half" of two specific human races, because our parents may also be mixed (usually not half). More often than not, calling someone a "Half" race is a flat out falsehood. There is a far more diverse percentage of what "race" people are. But despite that mixed percentage we all still have HUMAN stats. That is the baseline. Our genetic differences are certainly there, but they don't modify our stat blocks like our society, environment, and individual learning impacts us. I would say trying to assign different racial abilities to different human races in a game would be very problematic. It's even worse when as part of a humanocentric game you can pick and choose the race aspects you want. That would be creepy.

In a fantasy world, there is a new paradigm that surpasses what we know in our real world. Different species can interbreed. Now we can say that in a fantasy world, where species interbreeding is far more rare, and more likely to result in "half" species. But that rarity comes with so much negative baggage in historical representation, and in many games where race/racism is a big factor/motivator. And if interbreeding is so common, how is anyone really "half"?

Back to the melting pot of racial abilities, even historically, half-races didn't get a pure melting pot of abilities from parent races. In older game designs, Half-Elves and Half-Orcs and Muls got abilities that neither parent had (or in the case of the oldest versions just worse abilities from the non-human race, different ability modifiers, and they were multi-classable), so that would not be reflected in a potential melting pot racial ability system. They were designed different so they would be different. But each "Half-race" has negative origins, despite trying to sterilize things in later editions.

Going forward, I will advocate for the removal of "Half" in favor of "Mixed" which better represents not only "half" species, but the fuller spectrum of potential mixed heritages. Mechanically, I would prefer something akin to what the Mixed Species sidebar suggests, or perhaps even a single stat-block that has options (kind of like a can be used to create your own preferred mixed (or even chimeric) option.

CHILDREN OR CHIMERAS OF DIFFERENT HUMANOID KINDS
Thanks to the magical workings of the multiverse, Humanoids of different kinds sometimes have children together, or are created chimerically from more than one species through magic. For example, folk who have a human parent and an orc or an elf parent are particularly common. Other Humanoids may have been created through magic to have the qualities of more than one Humanoid species, and are considered to have a Chimeric origin. Through either of these origins, many combinations are possible.

If you’d like to play the child of Mixed heritage or Chimeric origin... Choose an option below that best represents your character's origin.

Option 1 (Use a refined version of the Children of Different Humanoid Kinds rules in Playtest Packet 1)

Option 2 (have a number of open-ended options like vision, skills, and feats, and a number of chooseable abilities (not all), build-a-bear-like.

I honestly don't think they will build every existing race to have modular abilities in the PH. That seems so far beyond scope of the 2024 update, requiring the redesigning of every species from the ground up to balance the value of every ability outside of the specific species package they are designed for. "I choose Wings, Fast Movement, and Lucky! Hell yeah!" Nope.
 

Min-maxing changes what the game looks like. If Longswords are the best, then people use Longswords. If Old Dirty Bastardswords are best, they will be the weapons people use the most.

The more I think about it, the more questions I have. If the best mixed-species options are acquired by mixing warforged and dragonborn, then the most common cobbled together "species" will be a biomechanical dragonman.
I get what you're saying but my experience is that race choices are more personal than, say, weapon choices, and further, different people have wildly different perceptions about what racial traits are actually good. Whereas with weapons it's usually simple math or logic. On top of that, generally speaking different racial traits help with different classes. Getting medium armour proficiency for free is awesome if you normally get no armour proficiencies, but completely worthless if you normally get heavy armour, for example.

These two things combine to mean that even you've determined mechagodzilla is the most "optimal" race on paper, in theory, very few people will actually pick mechagodzilla, because some people will just never want to play that - most people I'd say - other people will go "Yeah but I don't think those traits are actually are good" (wrong or rightly - I've seen a lot of very failed optimization from players over the years) - and others still will, almost certainly correctly go "Yeah mechagodzilla would be optimal for a caster, but it's a terrible choice for a Fighter".

Whereas if ODB Sword is the best 2h STR melee weapon, you'll see them pretty often (probably not every group, even then).

You can see this in 5E. The strongest on-paper races are pretty clear - Legacy Yuan-Ti Pureblood, Legacy Satyr, V-Human, Half-Orc, various kinds of Elf, Mountain Dwarf and so on. Yet how many Legacy Yuan-Ti do you see at your table? How many Legacy Satyrs? How many V-Humans even?

So I think the whole "oh there will be a best combo" thing is pretty nothing in practice. It's not going to "shape the game" in the same way as a better weapon clearly would.

What I will say is the inverse is more true - the very worst races rarely get played - but even some of those do for sheer style's sake - Dragonborn, for example, prior to the dragonbook, where a frankly terrible, godawful, no-good race. But on the hand - you were big ass dragonperson, so despite sucking bad, they were quite popular.
 

I just think with feats being mandatory in 5e2024 the easy method is just using feats.

Step 1: Choose two Race options that are Humanoid to represent your parents
Step 2: You can then mix, match or combine Size, Speed and visual characteristics—colors, ear shape, and the like—of the two options chosen as parents.
Step 3: You can choose to have one Resistance to a damage type that either of your parents Races.
Step 4: You can choose to have a version of Darkvision that either of your parent Races.
Step 5: If both of your parents lack Resistance or Darkvision, you gain proficiency in one Skill of your choice.
Step 6: You gain 2 1st-level feats, one which has one of your parent Races as a prerequisite and one which has the other.
  • Dragonborn: Dragon Hide
  • Dwarf: Dwarven Fortitude
  • Elf: Elven Accuracy
  • Goliath: Goliath Power
  • Gnome: Fade Away
  • Halfling: Second Chance
  • Human: Prodigy
  • Orc: Orcish Fury
  • Tiefling: Infernal Tielfling Constitution
 

It is mostly an internal phenomenon. (Though not isolated) The argument is, since "we have to decolonize the culture", that self-identified mestizos are actually just indigenous people who have lost their culture -or white people appropriating-. And yes there was a huge amount of people indigenous people who were left adrift and married outside their ethnic groups/tribes during the early Colonial times, but the European and African intermix is undeniable.
Yeah the idea that we are one or the other is bonkers. Yeah, my ancestors are colonizers…and the people they stole land from. That’s…just the fundemental reality of Latin America. My grandmother’s Spanish family has been in California since at least when the Santa Barbara Mission was built, and the Indigenous ancestors were here 10,000 or so years before if I recall my prehistoric human migration facts correctly.
A few are indigenous activists, but a lot are scholars and academics who feel white guilt. A more visible exanole to you. There is an upcomming Disney show called Primos and there was a social network reaction in the Spanish internet because of the broken Spanish in the opening theme. The production mostly handled it well, but a VA poster a video in twitter where she was claiming that it didn't matter because she was indigenous and Spanish is a colonizer's language so it had nothing to do with the Latino experience.
Man broken Spanish is so much part of life here in CA that I can’t imagine trying to distance the Latino experience from it (I’m guessing they actually say Latinx? I prefer Latine if there needs to be a neutral form, since it at least conforms to how it works otherwise, but I’m not getting mad at people who just say Latino). Like yes there are other Latin American languages, but Spanish is the most widespread, and Spain doesn’t own it.
I'm a fan of changing the name, but leave the people. (For example an Elvish word that means "child" or Elfin or whatever) But direct erasure?
Yeah I also like the idea of a play on a word that refers to a liminal space, like “vesper”, but made to sound elfish.
 
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Man broken Spanish is so much part of life here in CA that I can’t imagine trying to distance the Latino experience from it (I’m guessing they actually say Latinx? I prefer Latine if there needs to be a neutral form, since it at least conforms to how it works otherwise, but I’m not getting mad at people who just say Latino). Like yes there are other Latin American languages, but Spanish is the most widespread, and Spain doesn’t own it.
But broken Spanish comes off as an insult to Mexicans, Colombians, Argentinians and so on still living in their countries. Just Google/peruse youtube with "Oye Primos" and see for yourself (or not, save yourself the headache).
 

But broken Spanish comes off as an insult to Mexicans, Colombians, Argentinians and so on still living in their countries. Just Google/peruse youtube with "Oye Primos" and see for yourself (or not, save yourself the headache).
Oof. Reminds me of French speakers talking trash about creole languages.

I’ll go ahead and pass. Thanks for the heads up. I’m curious about Primos, though. Imma check that out.
 



I think my main issue with a pick n' mix hybrid trait option, is that every single dnd guide will start with something like 'play as a centaur-thri kreen hybrid'.

And then some unholy 12 limbed centipede of a playable will end up as the most commonly played creature (they always pick sorhexadin for story reasons of course).
 

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