D&D (2024) Half Race Appreciation Society: Half Elf most popular race choice in BG3

[Scribe]

Apologies in advance

Hah! Its all good. Its one of the hills upon which I would happily die but its not a productive turn of the conversation in my experience.

If we are honest, most of the 'deeper looks' at this thread are not going to, or simply cannot be, productive. Are Half Elves/Orcs a 'First among Equals'? Well yeah, kind of. They have legacy, they have history, and they are there, right now, in the 5e PHB which grants them an immediate relevancy that a Drago-Dwarf, will simply never have.

Is there a niche, a trope, a relevance, for the 'person part of and removed from both worlds'? Without question, and are those tropes or feelings of being seen, expressed by Half Elf and Half Orc? Without a doubt. Do we NEED Drago-Dwarf? I just dont see it.

Now, I'll never (ever) buy into the idea that the 5e Fantasy Species, equate with 'real world' Humans. They dont. Want diverse humanity? Well guess what? Its already there in the game. We have people, art, settings, from any and every human culture, and ethnicity as it is, and people still want Half Elf/Orc, because its a representation to them, the individual.

The whole Drago-Dwarf, is a mechanical gap, but its not a narrative/trope one, and its not a mechanical gap that personally I need filled, any more than Custom Lineage already could provide (I dont accept it anyway) so...why?

Half Elf/Orc exist for specific tropes and representation as is, we then have Custom Lineage for any 'I want to look like this but have these mechanics', or DM Fiat, hell someone let their player be a Unicorn recently, great, fantastic.

Regardless of any other consideration, the fact Half Elf/Orc have been representation for some players for decades, is reason enough to keep them.

And, they are right there in the 5e PHB, and this is not a new version/edition, so they should continue to exist.

 

[CreamCloud0]

I can understand wanting to destigmatize ancestries, but it does kind of beg the question; what about evil Backgrounds/Cultures?

No one ever thinks they are the baddies [link to a Mitchell and Webb sketch] (which at the risk of bringing in the Alignment Flame Wars is why I find the whole alignment system in need of being rejected)

while i agree species shouldn't be blanket assigned an alignment i don't think it needs to be tossed out wholesale, it still works as a descriptor for individuals and i think can work for the prevalent philosophy of like minded groups (ie: you don't assign Drow as Chaotic Evil you assign the Cult of Lolth as that, a significant portion of people who live in [city] tend towards being lawful)

there piece said, let's hope it not start any discourse

 

[RareBreed]

Now, I'll never (ever) buy into the idea that the 5e Fantasy Species, equate with 'real world' Humans. They dont. Want diverse humanity? Well guess what? Its already there in the game. We have people, art, settings, from any and every human culture, and ethnicity as it is, and people still want Half Elf/Orc, because its a representation to them, the individual.

yeah, I agree there.

Diversity should effectively already be in the game, no matter which setting you want to play in, and for that matter no matter which ancestry.

That's kind of why I was wondering why people wanted to play mixed ancestry characters. Legacy's sake? To be just a bit different than a "vanilla" human? For a game mechanic edge? For wanting to roleplay someone like Tanis? Which now that I think about, how come Elrond Half-Elf never came off as anything other than full elf? I never read The Silmarillion, so maybe there's some references to his human side there. I know his brother decided to become human and founded the line of Numenor...

 

[Scribe]

That's kind of why I was wondering why people wanted to play mixed ancestry characters. Legacy's sake? To be just a bit different than a "vanilla" human? For a game mechanic edge? For wanting to roleplay someone like Tanis?

I think it just has to be a very individual thing. Folks in this and other threads discussing it have pointed out that they feel the Half Elf/Orc, are 'representation' to them, of their identity. Who am I to deny that if thats what they feel and want to play as?

Its still an individual thing though right? Its not like Half Elf is a particular combo of 'real world' ethnic groups. Is the Human side Irish? Maybe the Elf is Serbian? Its nonsense when taken to that degree.

The important parts to me, are.

1. Its representation to someone.
2. Its erasure to remove them to someone.
3. Its a legacy (Hi Tanis) option, with context and history within the game that is a loss to me to remove.
4. Its literally a 5e option, and we have been told 6 ways from Sunday that this is NOT a new edition.

So, include the Half Elf/Half Orc.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

That's kind of why I was wondering why people wanted to play mixed ancestry characters. Legacy's sake? To be just a bit different than a "vanilla" human? For a game mechanic edge? For wanting to roleplay someone like Tanis? Which now that I think about, how come Elrond Half-Elf never came off as anything other than full elf? I never read The Silmarillion, so maybe there's some references to his human side there. I know his brother decided to become human and founded the line of Numenor...

It's kind of a self-perpetuating thing.

Half-Elves no doubt came in because of Elrond Half-Elven, Aragorn, and so on. Looking at their lifespan and capabilities in earlier editions, it's pretty clear they were more meant to be Aragorns than Elronds.

But once they were in the game, people rapidly became extremely attached to them. In part because they are between two worlds - and so are a lot of people - not just ethnically mixed people, but people in general. Whether it's between two cultures of the same approximate ethnicity, between two (or most classes) in a classist society, between different groups of friends, even, this idea of being sort of bridge between two groups or stuck between two identities, depending on how you played it, had a huge amount of traction.

They also have appeal on other levels - you're not immortal or nigh-immortal like an elf, but you don't have to be bound by the same rules as a human, for example.

Game mechanics-wise, they didn't give you an "edge" in earlier editions - they're basically just a worse elf - except for one thing - they have higher level limits, in general. Few people enforced those (not none, but not many, in many cases characters simply never got that far), but some players definitely liked the fact that they couldn't easily be enforced on them (to be fair though, Elves also had pretty high limits, and humans had none - but couldn't multi-class).

I think, at least in my experience though people who play Half-Elves usually keep playing them over and over - because it's just a theme they like, a style they like. It doesn't even really matter what abilities they have. I've seen people play them through 2/3/4/5E.

I will say Tieflings have pulled some people away to that, because it has some of the same stuff going on, but in a way that can be played as either edgier, or more bizarre, or both. Plus some people just really like having horns and/or a tail.

 

[MoonSong]

But by highlighting the half-elf at the expense of all the others, we are singling that parental pairing out. To me it would be like using Black/Asian children as the example of mixed ancestry and only talking about them, but the Hispanic/White children, Middle Eastern/Black children, East Asian/Indigenous children, they aren't as important when it comes to talking about this subject. And that doesn't sit right with me either.

So I don't discount your feelings on the matter... I just don't know if it's the best option available.

But I don't see it as "highlighting one at the expense of others", rather as "Unless at least one option is highlighted and given lore, none will get any and none will stand out enough to be noticed by adventure creators." Removing half-elf lore won't make all other mixed-heritage visible and more numerous, but instead will make all of them invisible. How many custom-lineage NPCs exist in published adventures? How many half-orc NPCs showed up during 2e?

We need at least one mixed-heritage standard. Otherwise we have an "special" option, and such options have a tendency to be allowed-once-in-a-lifetime picks. (And well, the first bird in the formation makes it easier not harder for the subsequent birds to fly. Without a first bird there is no formation and every bird is left to struggle on its own)

 

[Yaarel]

The whole Drago-Dwarf, is a mechanical gap, but its not a narrative/trope one, and its not a mechanical gap that personally I need filled, any more than Custom Lineage already could provide (I dont accept it anyway) so...why?

In Norse traditions, a prominent dragon is Fáfnir, who is a dvergr who shapeshifted into the serpent.

There is also a tradition about a human monarchy who gave birth to a dragon.

Most dragons are jǫtnar in serpent form, for example, Loki giving birth to the cosmic serpent.

The fluidity between the dragon and other species is a common trope.


In D&D, a character descending from Dragonborn and an other species can exemplify some of these concepts. Fizbans makes official that other species can transmogrify (partially shapeshifting) under the influence of a nearby ancient Dragon, and in this sense a Half-Dragonborn.

The main point is, character customization is useful can assist storytelling.

 

[Yaarel]

But I don't see it as "highlighting one at the expense of others", rather as "Unless at least one option is highlighted and given lore, none will get any and none will stand out enough to be noticed by adventure creators." Removing half-elf lore won't make all other mixed-heritage visible and more numerous, but instead will make all of them invisible. How many custom-lineage NPCs exist in published adventures? How many half-orc NPCs showed up during 2e?

We need at least one mixed-heritage standard. Otherwise we have an "special" option, and such options have a tendency to be allowed-once-in-a-lifetime picks. (And well, the first bird in the formation makes it easier not harder for the subsequent birds to fly. Without a first bird there is no formation and every bird is left to struggle on its own)

That is why I feel the multispecies section needs two examples: Human-Elf because it is common, and perhaps Dwarf-Dragonborn because it is less common.

 

[Clint_L]

yeah, I agree there.

Diversity should effectively already be in the game, no matter which setting you want to play in, and for that matter no matter which ancestry.

That's kind of why I was wondering why people wanted to play mixed ancestry characters. Legacy's sake? To be just a bit different than a "vanilla" human? For a game mechanic edge? For wanting to roleplay someone like Tanis? Which now that I think about, how come Elrond Half-Elf never came off as anything other than full elf? I never read The Silmarillion, so maybe there's some references to his human side there. I know his brother decided to become human and founded the line of Numenor...

Tolkien handled half-elf lineage exactly how WotC is proposing: you pick one parent and have all of their species traits. Elros chose the human traits, and Elrond the elven ones.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Basically, without actually making a design effort and actually making a system for multi-species characters that can express both sides of their heritage, we're left with either the existing Mulatto Tragedy of the half elf who is Tanis-sad about not belonging in either parents' world, or the Pick a Heritage and stick with it of the latest rules: Pick a Racially Insensitive Narrative.

Because both are apparently preferable to rolling up one's sleeves and doing the work that needs to be done.

Not sure if I said it in this thread or elsewhere, but considering the popularity and widespread nature of half-elves, I'd love to see them positioned as a people with their own identity beyond but not abandoning 'being of two worlds' as that's what I'm finding relatable at this point and is going to become increasingly relatable as society progresses.