Is "GM Agency" A Thing?

[Micah Sweet]

Given the different roles of player and GM in most games, I don't think that agency means the same thing. We evaluate player agency in how their decisions and choices affect the game world... that their decisions matter and can change the state of the game for better or worse.

Essentially, it's an evaluation of their potential impact as a participant of the game.

What does that mean for the GM? Why would we expect their impact to be limited? Even in games that have more rules that bind the GM's actions, there's no doubt that what the GM does can impact play significantly.

The question would be more about why. Why are they trying to influence the game? Toward what goal? In response to what?

Players have goals in play, and agency is about how they try to achieve those goals, and their chances to do so.

What are a GM's goals in play? If they have any, I'd expect they'd be more separate of the fiction within the game world. They'd be more about "providing challenge" or "rewarding good play" or the like. Those seem very different from player goals.

The GM's agency (in the sense you describe) is often limited in some games, mostly on the narrative end of the spectrum. I presume those who GM such games want it that way.

 

[hawkeyefan]

The GM's agency (in the sense you describe) is often limited in some games, mostly on the narrative end of the spectrum. I presume those who GM such games want it that way.

I think the GM's authority may be limited. I'm less inclined to think of that in agency as we tend to view that of players, for the reasons I described.

What is a GM trying to bring about in the fiction of the game world?

A player may have a goal for his character... revenge on a villain, rescuing a princess, establishing a new kingdom, whatever... what goals does a GM have?

 

[Thomas Shey]

Just because there have always been different ways to play doesn't mean one should be valued in general over the others. In a particular game or even a particular system, sure.

I'm just saying that suggesting hard-keying wasn't even a given 50 years ago. You really need to not take everything as an attack on your choices, man.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I think the GM's authority may be limited. I'm less inclined to think of that in agency as we tend to view that of players, for the reasons I described.

What is a GM trying to bring about in the fiction of the game world?

A player may have a goal for his character... revenge on a villain, rescuing a princess, establishing a new kingdom, whatever... what goals does a GM have?

Depends on the game, like, a lot.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I'm just saying that suggesting hard-keying wasn't even a given 50 years ago. You really need to not take everything as an attack on your choices, man.

I would love to do that, but my choices keep getting attacked, largely because they're not "popular".

Probably not in this case, however. I apologize.

 

[hawkeyefan]

Depends on the game, like, a lot.

How so?

What are your goals as a GM in your game?

 

[Micah Sweet]

How so?

What are your goals as a GM in your game?

To make fair rulings and dispute resolutions, to create an imaginary fantasy world where things are simulated as much as is practical, and to create an environment where the players can have fun in the game. Not necessarily in that order.

 

[hawkeyefan]

To make fair rulings and dispute resolutions, to create an imaginary fantasy world where things are simulated as much as is practical, and to create an environment where the players can have fun in the game. Not necessarily in that order.

Those are the kinds of goals (with the possible exception of creating an imaginary world) that is separate of the in game fiction. Meaning they’re different in that sense from the kinds of player goals mentioned.

I don’t think any RPGs set things up to limit those goals.

That’s why I don’t think this idea of GM agency is all that much use.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Those are the kinds of goals (with the possible exception of creating an imaginary world) that is separate of the in game fiction. Meaning they’re different in that sense from the kinds of player goals mentioned.

I don’t think any RPGs set things up to limit those goals.

That’s why I don’t think this idea of GM agency is all that much use.

I would certainly argue that creating an imaginary world is all about the in-game fiction, as it generates the setting in which that fiction takes place. Many RPGs limit that part of my goals in one way or another.

 

[pemerton]

@hawkeyefan

It seems to me that we can talk about the extent to which the GM contributes to the content of the shared fiction, just as we can in respect of players.

And absolutely this is something that can be affected by system/approach.

<snip>

A traditional CoC module won't work if the players expect or assert agency. To work, it depends upon the players accepting the GM's control over how events unfold and what their outcomes are

Any thoughts on this?