D&D (2024) Half Race Appreciation Society: Half Elf most popular race choice in BG3

[bedir than]

'Every species is exactly the same and equal in every way' is the opposite of nuanced. It's just as bad as 'Every member of this species is identically evil and dumb with no outliers or variation at all'.

It's also a complete fabrication to say that every species is the same in post-Tasha's D&D. There are significant mechanical and massive lore differences between every playable species.

The Dwarf's lore entry has 1169 words. Zero themes are shared with the Elf's 1083 words of lore.
The only mechanics they share are the ability to see in the dark. Each has multiple other mechanics that are quite different, not just from each other, but from every other species available.

Insisting that a Dwarf is actually an Elf is a complete abandonment of what words mean.

In 2014 5e there's more nuance available. In 2024 5e that will expand a bit more, and still not be adequate for the reason this thread exists. WotC has eliminated some of the black and white, but in doing so damaged the nuance available in the two "half species"

 

[Vaalingrade]

That's because the real thing is 'Every intelligent species is full of individuals', not 'Every species is exactly the same and equal in every way'

 

[Frozen_Heart]

It's also a complete fabrication to say that every species is the same in post-Tasha's D&D. There are significant mechanical and massive lore differences between every playable species.

The Dwarf's lore entry has 1169 words. Zero themes are shared with the Elf's 1083 words of lore.
The only mechanics they share are the ability to see in the dark. Each has multiple other mechanics that are quite different, not just from each other, but from every other species available.

Insisting that a Dwarf is actually an Elf is a complete abandonment of what words mean.

In 2014 5e there's more nuance available. In 2024 5e that will expand a bit more, and still not be adequate for the reason this thread exists. WotC has eliminated some of the black and white, but in doing so damaged the nuance available in the two "half species"

I've seen multiple people, including in this thread, saying that all mechanical impact of species should be removed.

And yeah, the PHB dwarf and elf do have well over a thousand words on lore. The species from Volo's guide ad just as many. Fast forward to MotM and we're getting around 100 words per species, with the lore being vastly stripped down.

That's because the real thing is 'Every intelligent species is full of individuals', not 'Every species is exactly the same and equal in every way'

Having one species being on average stronger than another species didn't stop every member of that species being individuals. Having lizardfolk thinking in a completely alien manner relative to humans doesn't stop each lizardfolk being a complete individual when compared to each other.

 

[bedir than]

I've seen multiple people, including in this thread, saying that all mechanical impact of species should be removed.

People in this thread are not WotC. You're equating what a handful of fans say as meaning that actual D&D has abandoned nuance. The reality is on the printed page.

And yeah, the PHB dwarf and elf do have well over a thousand words on lore. The species from Volo's guide ad just as many. Fast forward to MotM and we're getting around 100 words per species, with the lore being vastly stripped down.

Sure.

But this;

A subterranean folk, goblins can be found in every corner of the multiverse, often beside their bugbear and hobgoblin kin. Long before the god Maglubiyet conquered them, early goblins served in the court of the Queen of Air and Darkness, one of the Feywild’s archfey. Goblins thrived in her dangerous domain thanks to a special boon from her—a supernatural knack for finding the weak spots in foes larger than themselves and for getting out of trouble. Goblins brought this fey boon with them to worlds across the Material Plane, even if they don’t remember the fey realm they inhabited before Maglubiyet’s rise. Now many goblins pursue their own destinies, escaping the plots of both archfey and gods.

is not the same as

Duergar are dwarves whose ancestors were transformed by centuries living in the deepest places of the Underdark. That chthonic realm is saturated with strange magical energy, and over generations, early duergar absorbed traces of it. They were further altered when mind flayers and other Aberrations invaded and performed horrific experiments on them. Fueled by Underdark magic, those experiments left early duergar with psionic powers, which have been passed down to their descendants. In time, they liberated themselves from their aberrant tyrants and forged a new life for themselves in the Underdark and beyond.

Why would anyone claim that these are the exact same?

 

[Yaarel]

I view the emphasis on backgrounds and factions as an increase in nuance.

Backgrounds can mechanically express different cultural experiences without implying monolithic cultures nor ethnic stereotypes.

Meanwhile, a faction can be Evil when its ideology is Evil, its formal manifesto. But even then, its members might be "typically" Evil. Because there will be members who are loyal to loved ones who are faction members but who resist the Evil ideology.

All of this is an increase in nuance.

 

[Scribe]

The reality is on the printed page.

Sure is. Just look over the species descriptions in MotM vs MToF.

Why would anyone claim that these are the exact same?

Exact is a pretty defined word.

I do note that both species are now formerly conquered or formerly subject species, now liberated, and free to go on their way without really saying much of anything because species are now 'anything/everything'. The lack of enslavement being mentioned is an obvious 'its not what we say but what we are not saying' change in tone as well for the Duergar, also saying nothing about the relationship with other Dwarves, but again thats late 5e for you.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Having one species being on average stronger than another species didn't stop every member of that species being individuals. Having lizardfolk thinking in a completely alien manner relative to humans doesn't stop each lizardfolk being a complete individual when compared to each other.

The big guys get other things that make them lift and punch harder, so they ARE stronger. The game is just no longer designed so some peoples are mathematically a bad idea to play in the game that D&D actually is.

As for lizard people thinking in an alien manner: if the designers want to write xenofiction, they go off. But if they're just going to say 'they're weird and bad' and wander off, then no, let's not do that.

 

[Yaarel]

The big guys get other things that make them lift and punch harder, so they ARE stronger. The game is just no longer designed so some peoples are mathematically a bad idea to play in the game that D&D actually is.

As for lizard people thinking in an alien manner: if the designers want to write xenofiction, they go off. But if they're just going to say 'they're weird and bad' and wander off, then no, let's not do that.

Any creature that is "Humanoid" is human enough and requires similar sensitivity as Humans do.

It is still possible to have a monster that is a flat, non-nuanced, concept. But these would be Non-Humanoid creature types, that lack free will, and are defacto nonplayable.

Maybe various Fey, Constructs, Undead, and other creature types, who have a species that seems like it should have free will and be playable, should probably gain the Humanoid creature type in addition to the other one.

A Lizardfolk that is an instinctive Beast that lacks humanlike learning and free will, is possible, but such a xenofictive concept would be difficult for players to relate to or play.

Playable core species are Humanoid, by definition.

 

[Epic Meepo]

Regarding the two “half-species” under discussion in this thread, I’ve been wondering something. I’ve seen some reasonable arguments for the inclusion of half-elves (possibly renamed) as a core option in PHB 2024. I’m not seeing as much advocacy for half-orcs. Is this partly because the inclusion of orcs as a core option makes half-orcs somewhat redundant?

What I mean is this: we know from Monster Manual 2014 that the child of an orc and a “non-orc humanoid of similar size and stature… is either an orc or a half-orc.” If a 2024 sidebar tells us the child of an orc and a non-orc has orc traits, we’re still following one branch of the existing 2014 rules for characters of that ancestry.

In contrast, if a 2024 sidebar tells us the child of an elf and non-elf has elf traits, we’re not longer following any of the existing 2014 rules for characters of that ancestry (i.e. half-elves). The 2024 sidebar represents a hard break from the 2014 rules. No existing 2014 option for a child born to an elf and a non-elf is being reprinted in 2024.

Does that seem like a fair characterization of the difference between losing half-orc as a core species and losing half-elf as a core species?

 

[Frozen_Heart]

Any creature that is "Humanoid" is human enough and requires similar sensitivity as Humans do.

It is still possible to have a monster that is a flat, non-nuanced, concept. But these would be Non-Humanoid creature types, that lack free will, and are defacto nonplayable.

Maybe various Fey, Constructs, Undead, and other creature types, who have a species that seems like it should have free will and be playable, should probably gain the Humanoid creature type in addition to the other one.

A Lizardfolk that is an instinctive Beast that lacks humanlike learning and free will, is possible, but such a xenofictive concept would be difficult for players to relate to or play.

Playable core species are Humanoid, by definition.

Having different species having different concepts, feelings, or ranges of emotion doesn't stop them having learning or free will. Saying 'orcs are more aggressive than humans' doesn't stop them having free will in exactly the same way those same humans being less aggressive than orcs prevents humans having free will.

If an alien species suddenly appears from space and they're all smarter than humans, that doesn't mean humans suddenly no longer possess free will because we're universally 'trait X' in comparison to another species. All humans don't suddenly become 'instinctive beasts' if another species which thinks differently appears.