Unpopular opinions go here

[Cadence]

Again, not doing either of those things. I know early D&D has a special place in our hearts and history, and I certainly feel that, personally, so I'm talking about excluding a game I like, not one I don't happen to like. Because, keeping it classed as a TTRPG is an impediment to understanding, improving, or even discussing TTRPGs.

And early D&D and Freestyle RP are not a large proportion of published TTRPGs out there. The former looms large in history and via the OSR constellation of games (which, like, most may well fit a reasonable definition, too), the latter is not a published game, at all, but a common fall-back or adjunct technique to actual games, that seriously confuses the issue.

It kind of seems like the term ttRPG has been taken and definitionally includes the early D&D.

It feels like anyone who didn't want them in the discussion could always make a new term that only included the things they wanted to and then discuss that?

 

[Tony Vargas]

Unless you go the other way, and define TTRPGs to include D&D and games like it. Why are we assuming the modern games have to take priority here?

The problem is trying to include D&D, which predates the very idea of a TTRPG. It's D&D ultimate sacred cow, I guess.

Of course, it doesn't mean we can't appreciate D&D for what it did to establish TTRPGs nor continue to love it. "0D&D was the first RPG" and "D&D started as a wargame, that touched off the TTRPG hobby, an grew to become an RPG, itself" both recognize it's place in history.

 

[Tony Vargas]

It feels like anyone who didn't want them in the discussion could always make a new term that only included the things they wanted to and then discuss that?

GNS does that, in it's own, very unproductive way, it can exile early D&D into the Simulationist box.

 

[Cadence]

GNS does that, in it's own, very unproductive way, it can exile early D&D into the Simulationist box.

So what does framing the discussion you want as being about GNttRPGs lose for you? Is it that it has GNS baggage you don't want? Is there another adjective you could put in front of it? Is there a problem with ttSGs (S=story) for example?

 

[Tony Vargas]

So what does framing the discussion you want as being about GNttRPGs lose for you? Is it that it has GNS baggage you don't want? Is there another adjective you could put in front of it? Is there a problem with ttSGs (S=story) for example?

What's an example of a "Story Game," in this context?

ROLL v ROLE and GNS very much drove home to me the problem of not having a clear/tight/workable definition of TTRPG, tho, yes, if that's what you're asking.

 

[overgeeked]

Unpopular opinion: playing an RPG only requires playing your character in pawn stance. Anything more is you deciding you need to do all that. You don’t need to be a writer, an actor, a cosplayer, or a voice actor to play an RPG.

 

[Tony Vargas]

"pawn stance," I'm sure I've heard used in a negative or derisive way.
But, no, you shouldn't need the specific skills of a writer/actor/costumer/whatever, to simply play a game. Monopoly (possibly a bad example, because it's also a very popular, rather bad game), for instance, does not require actual Finance/Accounting/Property-management skills.

I mean, game ... we really seem to lose sight of that. (OK, yes, hobbies get taken a great deal more serious than casually playing, game, certainly.)

 

[overgeeked]

Unpopular opinion: standing up to bullies is not itself bullying.

 

[Cadence]

What's an example of a "Story Game," in this context?

ROLL v ROLE and GNS very much drove home to me the problem of not having a clear/tight/workable definition of TTRPG, tho, yes, if that's what you're asking.

I have no idea. I'm good with the current ttRPG definition that is pretty universally used and seems to include all of D&D. I was just throwing out a thought.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

What's an example of a "Story Game," in this context?

ROLL v ROLE and GNS very much drove home to me the problem of not having a clear/tight/workable definition of TTRPG, tho, yes, if that's what you're asking.

So, since you seem to be so adept at this, where so many others (including a lot of academics) have failed, why don't you explain this grand unified theory to the rest of us as if we were slightly dumb golden retrievers.

What is you definition of TTRPGs that manages to exclude those things you want to exclude and include only those things that you want to include, and ... is an actual definition, not just "I don't like the way things are" complaint?