D&D 5E [+] Ways to fix the caster / non-caster gap

[Tony Vargas]

If that's the case, the D&D has a PR problem because their genre and their mechanics don't jive. For what it's worth, I have zero problem with them making that re-adjustment if that's what they did, hypothetically.

I mean, the Fighter is the most popular class in the game (and was in every prior edition, whether it was pathetic, OP-DPR, futilely feat-tastic, roughly balanced, or hosed), so admitting that everyone who likes it has been played for fools all this time and that the game was never meant for them, at all, might have PR implications. But, they already got away with the GSL fiasco, the OGL fiasco, and the Pinkerton fiasco, so they're probably fine.

 

[Raiztt]

I mean, the Fighter is the most popular class in the game (and was in every prior edition), so admitting that everyone who likes it has been played for fools all this time and that the game was never meant for them, at all, might have PR implications. But, they already got away with the GSL fiasco, the OGL fiasco, and the Pinkerton fiasco, so they're probably fine.

Wait...

Fighter is the most popular class of all time? Then what on earth makes you think WotC is going to change anything about it??

If what you're saying is true, this entire thread is tantamount to saying "We, the vocal ultra-minority, demand these changes!"

 

[Crimson Longinus]

No one is questioning that you need to create a framework of familiar elements into a work of speculative fantasy in order to make the fantastical elements stand out.

No one is questioning that the humans of a speculative fantasy would presumably think, feel, and be physiologically similar to us as Earth humans.

The difference in opinion is I believe that since those humans exist in a universe that doesn't operate under standard physical laws (as shooting fire with your mind would necessitate different physics), we simply can't assume that any normal boundary of physics or biology is actually in place.

One side says "I know an Oerth human can shoot fire from their brain after reading a book a few times, but that doesn't mean an Oerth human can lift 1000 pounds after a few weeks of weight training and Orc killing. That's obviously implausible."

I'm saying "If an Oerth human can shoot fire from their brain after reading a book a few times, who the hell knows what else they can do?"

Exactly this. I don't really like arguments in the vein of "it is fantasy, so nothing needs to make sense." Fantasy can and should make sense. But that doesn't mean omitting the fantastic. If in this fiction we can speculate that human mind could harness magic, then we can also speculate that human body could achieve feats greater than those of real life humans. And ultimately this is a game where we want high level characters to go toe to toe with fire breathing dinosaurs and survive. And to me it is far more realistic that they can do it, if we assume that they have physical capabilities beyond real life humans.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Wait...

Fighter is the most popular class of all time? Then what on earth makes you think WotC is going to change anything about it??

If what you're saying is true, this entire thread is tantamount to saying "We, the vocal ultra-minority, demand these changes!"

Almost like a thread with a + on it is a place for an ultravocal minority to discuss things without people threadcrapping.

 

[Raiztt]

Almost like a thread with a + on it is a place for an ultravocal minority to discuss things without people threadcrapping.

I salute you, have fun.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Fighter is the most popular class of all time?

Yes, always has been, from the lowly Fighting Man of 0e, to the stolid %STR/extra-attack early 1e fighter, to the crazed dual-wielding/double-specialized DPR machine of later AD&D, to the elegant, highly feat-customizable yet still disml-Tier 5 design of 3e, to the balanced, competent defender of 4e, back to the ExtraExtraExtra Attack fighter of 5e. Regardless of whether the fighter was good, bad, balanced or indifferent, it's popularity has never waned. People want to play fighters (and Rogues, Barbarians, Warlords, Archers, Swashbuckling duelist, martial artists, etc), and they have often been unhappy with the choices D&D has offered.

Then what on earth makes you think WotC is going to change anything about it??

WotC has radically changed the Fighter with each full edition they've published. And with Essentials, which was more of a half-ed.

If what you're saying is true, this entire thread is tantamount to saying "We, the vocal ultra-minority, demand these changes!"

TBF, that's exactly what precipitated Essentials, and drove Next (5e), to re-entrench(pi) the martial/caster gap. It just wasn't one thread, it was every corner of the internet where D&D came up.

 

[Cadence]

Humans should be removed from D&D because they're inconsistent with a fun fantasy world.

How I imagine some AI will FTFY (and all of us) in the future.

 

[Tony Vargas]

and yet Earth produced these

So I am ok with Giants and Dragons...

You're OK with non-humanoid giants, and 400lb dragons that could only glide by dragging themselves to the edge of a cliff and riding thermals....

...and, yes, by all means, restrict monsters to pre-historic animals, and casters to card tricks, if you want to hold everyone to realism.

 

[mamba]

excuse?
Heracles shouldered Atlas's burden for a time, that's superman level strength, and he wore the skin of the Nimean lion, which made him invulnerable, he was only down the flight (which superman didn't initially have) and the X-ray vision (which, is just as well, I hate to think how a Son of Zeus would've perved out with that one).

he is the son of Zeus, not exactly a human…

If your example for what a fantasy human should be capable of is literally a demigod, then we have different ideas about what they should be

 

[Umbran]

You're adorable. I will bet you literally any amount of money that whatever is coming down the pipe...

Mod Note:
... is some red text.

Please note that this is a "+ thread". This discussion is for those who want to constructively engage on the general basis laid out in the OP. If you aren't in general agreement with that, or are here to just take jabs at folks, this isn't the thread for you.

So, either be constructive, or find another discussion, please and thanks.