Unpopular opinions go here

[Bedrockgames]

But a +1 to Initiative and AC is going to define what it means to be an elf? Really? And, not having that +1 to Initiative and AC but, instead, having 1 more HP/level is going to make my elf completely unrecognizable as an elf?

Really?

again, not really the argument that this one bonus defines them. But bonuses like these in my experience, make playing an elf feel different from playing a human, or a halfling different from an elf, etc and that adds something important to the game for me

 

[Maxperson]

i don't play 5E so I can't comment on the bonuses for that edition. But in the past I have found the various bonuses for races useful and meaningful

They were much more meaningful in 3e where ACs paced the PCs increases and you needed that +2 to stay even. 5e doesn't do that. There isn't the same treadmill. ACs do increase, but at a very minor rate and the increase in proficiency bonus compensates just fine.

 

[Micah Sweet]

As I'm working on my own content I can only ask myself 'what would I pay Wizards for.'

Not a question I would think they would want to hear but hey.

Even a few years ago, I would have paid Wizards for mechanical updates to a bunch of setting-specific material from earlier editions. Now, I can't think of anything.

 

[Emberashh]

So there's a reason why the beasts are included in the PHB in Appendix D. The familiars are also included so that the arcane casters don't need to use the MM.

If that was enough, Druid would be played more.

There's no line you can point to

If you've removed all content and then also removed the core mechanic, whatever it is you're playing is no longer DND.

Context people context.

 

[Maxperson]

If that was enough, Druid would be played more.

No. The reason people don't play druids is because it's a bloody pain in the arse to use a ton of different stat blocks no matter which book they are in. The design flaw, though, isn't in where the beasts are, because they are in the player book.

If you've removed all content and then also removed the core mechanic, whatever it is you're playing is no longer DND.

Context people context.

For you it isn't D&D. For them it might be. Their context in this regard isn't your context. All you can say is that it wouldn't be D&D to you, which is true.

 

[Tony Vargas]

This kind of decision though basically makes 6E a nonstarter for many of us

6e is already non-starting, it's just a new revision of 5e that's coming out next year. Backwards compatible. Keep playing your 5e.2014 characters.

 

[Maxperson]

It‘s not about being completely unrecognizable. It never was. But then, being different from the baseline in that particular way (bonus to Dex) helped define the set of characteristics that makes elves elves in D&D. And removing it loses some of that distinction, including the trade-offs in choosing one ancestry over another.

Right. Going back to the Vulcan example, no strength is not the most defining trait of being Vulcan. The ears, intellect and logic are. However, if I were in a game and we beamed a Vulcan up from planet Vulcan and he was human strength or weaker, and there was no medical reason for that to be the case, my PC would suspect that this was not a Vulcan. They had the tech(we see it in the various series) to alter physical appearance to look like other races. The increased strength is part of the Vulcan identity, just as high dex is part of the elven identity.

 

[overgeeked]

Have I posted in this thread?

No. Not yet. But you should. It’s fun.

 

[Tony Vargas]

It's not for you or me to say someone else isn't playing D&D, though. Most of us house rule/home brew the game. With 5e we have to because it was deliberately written vaguely in a lot of areas and with holes in other areas so that DMs would have to issue rulings. At least I hope it was deliberate.

lol, yeah. It's DM Empowerment. I didn't realize I'd been missing it for the preceding 14 years until I switched out of playtest mode and started running 5e with premeditated intent to make it fun.

At what point is D&D house ruled to the point where it is no longer D&D? There's no line you can point to, so it's purely opinion whether that line has been crossed or not, and the only opinions that really matter to the table playing the game are those of the people who are at that table. Not yours or mine.

I suppose at the same point that D&D, itself, became arguably no longer D&D? When the classes balance, meaning even the martials aren't underpowered and even the wizard isn't OP, when magic items don't re-define the character who claims them, when magic just doesn't feel magical anymore.

 

[overgeeked]

The pillars of play should have roughly equal mechanical weight. Combat has way too many dedicated rules. At most combat should be as involved as social interactions as detailed in the DMG.

All three pillars should have explicit roles you choose when making your character. Tank, DPS, and heals are not dirty words. Nor are face, scout, sage, or various others. Roles are great design that works well. The combat roles have existed in D&D from the beginning. That’s where CRPGs got the idea. Just making roles explicit would go a long way to improve game play and show obviously lacking design space.