D&D General What does the mundane high level fighter look like? [+]

[Crimson Longinus]

We agree that a high level mundane fighter should wade through lesser foes. However since 5e doesn't do it, many are simply stripping of the fantasy rather than creating good rules that enforce that fantasy.

They kinda do though. A high level fighter has good chance of oneshotting typical horde type enemies, and they have the greatest number of attacks so they can do it pretty fast.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Is it better if the ability describes some amount of movement to accompany it?

E.g: With a bust of speed you strike down this within your immediate surroundings, make a melee strike upon every enemy within a 15 foot radius,

or somesuch?

In a 6 second round? Not for me.

10’ maybe. That’s a pretty good striking range for a lunging swordsman IRL. And striking that many foes at that range in 6 seconds would still be a bit beyond the capabilities of even an elite normal person, so meets the minimal threshold of being a heroic level action. That warrior would still be a virtual tornado of steel.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

To the best of my recollection, D&D hasn't ever had official rules for warriors non-magically one-shotting anyone in any edition. Unless you count reducing the enemy to 0 HP via standard attacks, and then simply narrating the attack as such. It's always been relegated to magic (Vorpal sword, sword of sharpness, SoD spells, etc).

Early editions allowed high-level warriors to simply mow down any and all 1/2HD creatures (maybe even 1HD?) within their reach with a single attack. A high level warrior and a cinch through a horde of kobolds looked like a combine harvester clearing a field.

 

[Oofta]

But that is not "What does the mundane high level fighter look like?"

it is "What does the mundane high level nonfighter look like?"

We agree that a high level mundane fighter should wade through lesser foes. However since 5e doesn't do it, many are simply stripping of the fantasy rather than creating good rules that enforce that fantasy.

Only because you seem to refuse any alternative or different visual.

BTW the mob rules in the DMG are no more "optional" than any of the other rules in the book, it's under Running the Game > Combat > Handling Mobs. The word optional appears nowhere in the text. But even if it was, so what? The book gives you ideas how to handle it.

You have a very specific visual that only appears in a tiny fraction of literature and you're complaining because the rules don't support a very specific niche case. When it actually does.

 

[Tony Vargas]

By that standard, how can you even design a mundane warrior- the express purpose of this (+) thread?

I mean, from the OP...

Given: There is an option for a mundane fighter class. Mundane is defined as "no inherent magical ability built into the core class". "Magical ability" excludes being better at something a normal person can do (so jumping, strength, etc. are all on the table),

Simply put, if you’re willing to stretch the definition of “mundane” to those lengths, we’re not working with the same vocabulary

If you think the latter qualifies as mundane, we’ll never reach accord on a mundane warrior design.

Is cutting someone's head off with a sharp implement like a sword or ax necessarily magical? The same way twiddling your fingers & chanting to conjure a fireball out of nothing is magical?
No. It's something a normal person can do.

Degree doesn't really matter, the act of decapitation via a weapon is mundane for purposes of the thread.

What I’m saying is there’s an upper limit on how powerful a being a warrior should be able one-shot by purely mundane means, without supernatural aid

And that's essentially saying you can't have a high level 'mundane' warrior, because it can never match the power of high-level supernatural.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Early editions allowed high-level warriors to simply mow down any and all 1/2HD creatures (maybe even 1HD?) within their reach with a single attack. A high level warrior and a cinch through a horde of kobolds looked like a combine harvester clearing a field.

Sort of. As I recall, the fighter could make their level in attacks against such creatures, but still needed to roll damage. Granted, with a high enough exceptional strength and/or specialization and/or magic weapons, any hit against such a low HD creature could be a guaranteed kill. But it was more like the fighter's number of attacks were supercharged, rather than actual one shots. A fighter with a serious damage debuff on him, for example, might need to make multiple attacks to kill even such a low HD creature.

More importantly, the fighter still required magic to do the equivalent against any foe that could individually even be a shadow of a challenge to a name level fighter (much less 20th level). Drop a vorpal sword in the treasure horde and the fighter had a chance to decapitate Odin. Sans that vorpal sword (or similar item) the fighter would have no chance to do so, even against a measly 3 HD creature, even at 20th level.

 

[Minigiant]

They kinda do though. A high level fighter has good chance of oneshotting typical horde type enemies, and they have the greatest number of attacks so they can do it pretty fast.

Horde type enemies at low level.

Maybe this is the question.

Do the horde type enemies get stronger or is the DM supposed to just run 20 useless cr 1/2 monsters at level 18?

 

[Minigiant]

Only because you seem to refuse any alternative or different visual.

BTW the mob rules in the DMG are no more "optional" than any of the other rules in the book, it's under Running the Game > Combat > Handling Mobs. The word optional appears nowhere in the text. But even if it was, so what? The book gives you ideas how to handle it.

You have a very specific visual that only appears in a tiny fraction of literature and you're complaining because the rules don't support a very specific niche case. When it actually does.

You're mistaking what I'm saying.

You're saying why I'm ignoring an optional rule.

I'm saying the optional rule given is bad and doesn't actually work.

 

[Baron Opal II]

If a fighter's minimum damage is equal to or great than the target's hit points, it is a mook by approximation.

In my game, 1 HD creatures are mooks when fighters are 4th level.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Horde type enemies at low level.

I mean a horde of orcs or gnolls will probably just murder you at low level.

Maybe this is the question.

Do the horde type enemies get stronger or is the DM supposed to just run 20 useless cr 1/2 monsters at level 18?

They are not useless. But yes, if you want to run a horde of powerful foes then you have to accept that they might take more than one strike to kill.