D&D (2024) The Great Nerf to High Level Martials: The New Grapple Rules

[Yaarel]

Yes, but in real life, they also called Norse berzerkers fighters too, and yet the Barbarian class deserves to be a distinct archetype in D&D just as much as the Monk does.

I'm frankly not very impressed by Merriam-Webster argumentation.

The Norse berserkr is a shamanic warrior tradition.

The appropriation of the Norse heritage translates best as Primal.

It attunes landscapes and other features of nature, as well as animal identities and forms.

 

[Vikingkingq]

When "mixed martial arts" expressly includes European wrestling and boxing.

In these mixes, wrestlers turned out to be the most effective, causing most martial traditions to adapt.

It is bodyweaponry as a human species principle.

Again, how is this not a Monk thing? There's nothing in the Monk that says "non-European only."

 

[Vikingkingq]

The Norse berserkr is a shamanic warrior tradition.

The appropriation of the Norse heritage translates best as Primal.

It attunes landscapes and other features of nature, as well as animal identities and forms.

And warrior and fighter are synonyms, so who gives a damn?

And Primal isn't a thing outside of 4e.

 

[Yaarel]

And warrior and fighter are synonyms, so who gives a damn?

My point is, the "Martial" "Fighter" class includes the concept of unarmed combat.

In the Viking Period, children grew up wrestling from about 10 or so, for the purpose of surviving ongoing skirmishes.

One cannot separate effective unarmed combat from a premodern warrior.

Generally, any character − even a Wizard − needs a way to fight unarmed effectively by investing the appropriate resources such as Strength and the Athletics skill.

Then the Fighter class needs options to make the choice of bodyweaponry optimal.

 

[Yaarel]

And Primal isn't a thing outside of 4e.

Primal exists in 5e.

In 5e, primal and psionic exist alongside arcane and divine.

The UAs especially feature "primal", such as "Druids master primal magic", and the Barbarian has "primal power coursing thru you".

 

[Yaarel]

Again, how is this not a Monk thing? There's nothing in the Monk that says "non-European only."

DEXTERITY makes the Monk irrelevant to these discussions.

I am talking about Strength.

 

[Maxperson]

When "mixed martial arts" expressly includes European wrestling and boxing.

In these mixes, wrestlers turned out to be the most effective, causing most martial traditions to adapt.

It is bodyweaponry as a human species principle.

Meanwhile the Martial Fighter is a "martial" "fighter".

Mixed martial artists, UFC fighters, boxers, etc. are in the Martial Arts Hall of Fame. Martial arts include those things. Being European isn't relevant.

 

[Vikingkingq]

Primal exists in 5e.

In 5e, primal and psionic exist alongside arcane and divine.

The UAs especially feature "primal", such as "Druids master primal magic", and the Barbarian has "primal power coursing thru you".

If you're talking about the playtest, Primal isn't a spell list any more. So is the word "primal" used in the UA? Yes. But not as a mechanical concept.

 

[Vikingkingq]

My point is, the "Martial" "Fighter" class includes the concept of unarmed combat.

Can you give some examples of this? Because the class descriptions I'm familiar with all stress the Fighter as an armed combatant.

 

[Vikingkingq]

DEXTERITY makes the Monk irrelevant to these discussions.

I am talking about Strength.

It really does not - if we're talking about what real-world things a given class is or is not supposed to be evoking, than which stat is associated with which ability is irrelevant.