Just had the finale of my campaign in which the party got to enjoy a 20th level fighter. And as I had suspected, the grapples came out. The party was fighting a fey master who had sunk into the ground to absorb the power of the land. Well the fighter ripped him out of the ground with the first attack, moved him through a portal with forced movement, and then threw his anti-magic artifact hammer at the portal to close it. It was a critical scene at a time when a TPK was looking likely.
Through other high level play, my players have learned to respect the power of high level grappling....a power that will soon go away if the playtest continues as is.
What makes grappling so good is....at high levels its very easy for a strong front line fighter to pull off against a wide variety of monsters. In other words....its control on tap. Now sure you aren't dominating any minds, banishing, stuffing someone being a wall of force for the rest of the fight. Compared to those, a little forced movement, prone, and maybe restrain isn't all that sexy....but its the ease of the use that makes it a solid high level viable counter to what casters can do.
The casters have way stronger control options, but they have to get through the saves. The fighter can only do a few basic controls, but when he desires it, that control HAPPENS. This to me is a great way for martials to compete at those levels.
While I can see some appeal to the new grapple system, at the end of the day high level fighters will no longer have the ease of grappling they have now, and I think that's a real shame. Sure the new weapon masteries will give them a bit more punch, but nothing I have seen is replacing the simple "control on tap" they are giving up. At a time when we constantly complain about martial vs caster, I don't think the nerf is justified.
Through other high level play, my players have learned to respect the power of high level grappling....a power that will soon go away if the playtest continues as is.
What makes grappling so good is....at high levels its very easy for a strong front line fighter to pull off against a wide variety of monsters. In other words....its control on tap. Now sure you aren't dominating any minds, banishing, stuffing someone being a wall of force for the rest of the fight. Compared to those, a little forced movement, prone, and maybe restrain isn't all that sexy....but its the ease of the use that makes it a solid high level viable counter to what casters can do.
The casters have way stronger control options, but they have to get through the saves. The fighter can only do a few basic controls, but when he desires it, that control HAPPENS. This to me is a great way for martials to compete at those levels.
While I can see some appeal to the new grapple system, at the end of the day high level fighters will no longer have the ease of grappling they have now, and I think that's a real shame. Sure the new weapon masteries will give them a bit more punch, but nothing I have seen is replacing the simple "control on tap" they are giving up. At a time when we constantly complain about martial vs caster, I don't think the nerf is justified.
