D&D 5E Don't Throw 5e Away Because of Hasbro

[Art Waring]

I don't think so. I think publishers can continue to publish awesome 5e-compatible material that still works with the 2024 D&D books if the playtests are any indication. But we'll see.

I agree we will see in a few months. Just don't be surprised if they decide to go back to their old habits.

We still don't have the 3e SRD in creative commons (and its been a whole year), and there is no guarantee that they will deliver the next SRD into CC as well.

The biggest competitor for D&D 2024 is D&D 2014.

This actually supports my theory, that the next SRD/OGL release for 5e-2024 might be a poison-pill, because they really don't want any competition (their actions with the 1.1 OGL scandal have proven that). They already tried to kill the OGL multiple times (by rescinding the d20 STL, the 4e GSL, & the OGL 1.1), how many times does it take for people to see that they (wotc execs, not employees) really hate the idea of open source gaming?

 

[Micah Sweet]

I agree we will see in a few months. Just don't be surprised if they decide to go back to their old habits.

We still don't have the 3e SRD in creative commons (and its been a whole year), and there is no guarantee that they will deliver the next SRD into CC as well.


This actually supports my theory, that the next SRD/OGL release for 5e-2024 might be a poison-pill, because they really don't want any competition (their actions with the 1.1 OGL scandal have proven that). They already tried to kill the OGL multiple times (by rescinding the d20 STL, the 4e GSL, & the OGL 1.1), how many times does it take for people to see that they (wotc execs, not employees) really hate the idea of open source gaming?

That is to me one of the worst parts of WotC's actions. Why fight so hard to curb competition when you're brand is so powerful nothing else in the sphere can hold a candle to it in popularity? It's nothing but naked greed, and lack of confidence in their own work.

 

[Art Waring]

I mean I know everyone likes the underdog, and clearly WotC isn’t one of the those, but you would think that the explosion of the hobby - and the number of smaller companies, publishers, writers, artists, commentaries, live streamers and fans that have benefited symbiotically from WotC - means we would show a little less hate and a tad more goodwill.

This is completely tone-deaf to the current situation. You are saying we should show goodwill to a company that just burned down 20 plus years of goodwill within the community?

All those smaller companies, publishers, writers, artists & commenters very nearly got put out of business due to the 1.1 OGL. You can't honestly expect the entire industry to just roll over like a good doggy after they tried to burn the entire industry to the ground.

Were you around during the d20 glut? because that almost destroyed the entire industry as well. When they killed the d20 STL, they destroyed thousands of jobs, businesses, and ttrpg's. FLGS's went out of business. It took years for many to recover from the damage.

Its been about a year since the OGL 1.1 debacle, and the damage is still very real. My 5e projects and my 5e business are dead, as are countless other projects that creators were forced to abandon when they were faced with the threat of a large corporation hanging the sword of Domacles over the entire industry.

You don't get to speak for those who were harmed by the companies shady business practices. Those who suffer harm at the hands of others deserve to have their voices heard without you trying to debase their claims by boiling it down to "outrage."

What did you lose? nothing at all? Then maybe its time you took a moment to think about the people who were in fact harmed by these events, and perhaps have a bit of empathy for fellow human beings, rather than a big corporation that doesn't care about the community.

 

[bedir than]

there is no guarantee that they will deliver the next SRD into CC as well.

It doesn't need an SRD. The rules changes are insignificant when it comes to SRDs

 

[mamba]

actually supports my theory, that the next SRD/OGL release for 5e-2024 might be a poison-pill, because they really don't want any competition (their actions with the 1.1 OGL scandal have proven that).

2024 is much too similar from all we’ve seen, maybe in 7 years or so with a real update / 6e

 

[Art Waring]

It doesn't need an SRD. The rules changes are insignificant when it comes to SRDs

We really don't know that until the final release. From what I understand, post-OGL 1.1 they are shifting in a new direction, which means reworked rules, which means that they may in fact become incompatible with the 5.1 SRD. We will have to wait and see.

The issue of SRD's is not just limited to 5e, many OSR games use the 1.0a OGL & the 3e SRD, which has impacted the way OSR games engage with the OGL going forward as well. I don't think its insignificant to those who are affected by the situation.

 

[bedir than]

We really don't know that until the final release. From what I understand, post-OGL 1.1 they are shifting in a new direction, which means reworked rules, which means that they may in fact become incompatible with the 5.1 SRD. We will have to wait and see.

The issue of SRD's is not just limited to 5e, many OSR games use the 1.0a OGL & the 3e SRD, which has impacted the way OSR games engage with the OGL going forward as well. I don't think its insignificant to those who are affected by the situation.

No, we've seen the rules. Many of us have played with them. 2024's 5e isn't that different.

the stuff about what OSR games are doing with the 3e SRD doesn't matter for this conversation, because this is a conversation about playing 5e without using Hasbro products.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

I picked up Keys from the local library to run a quick one-shot for some friends coming over for an unexpected session. It seemed a little intricate for that purpose.
I'd love to get some good, old-fashioned site-based design. D&D seems to be bad at producing that.
Contrast it with the @SlyFlourish Lairs book I just got in a Bundle. I could run it with minimal prep, the group knew what was expected and had a great time. That's the kind of stuff I like to see.

Really good stuff:

• picking up a D&D book from your local library
• wanting more site-based design
• ease of use of @SlyFlourish's publications

Hear hear!

 

[Art Waring]

2024 is much too similar from all we’ve seen, maybe in 7 years or so with a real update / 6e

Well, I can't really say until the release, we will have to wait and see I guess...

 

[Art Waring]

No, we've seen the rules. Many of us have played with them. 2024's 5e isn't that different.

the stuff about what OSR games are doing with the 3e SRD doesn't matter for this conversation, because this is a conversation about playing 5e without using Hasbro products.

Fair enough. Thank you for clarifying.