Recurring silly comment about Apocalypse World and similar RPGs

[pemerton]

They’ve cited a rule about what to do when the players look to the GM for what’s next. Does no one recognize that’s not the same thing as asking what to do when a player has their pc act in a way that doesn’t trigger a move? Maybe. I dunno. But in any event, what I specifically asked about isn’t being addressed.

I infer from this that, in fact, you have not read the extract from p 109 of the rulebook that I already quoted in this thread before you started asking your questions, and that I have quoted approximately 100000000000000 times in other ENworld threads that you have participated in.

Your apparent inability to (i) read what people post or (ii) comprehend it or (iii) take it on board is a bit frustrating.

 

[pemerton]

What's important to keep in mind is that playbook and basic moves are an interruption to the flow of the conversation.

But @FrogReaver already knew that, because he's read the thread, including this post (#18, so on the front page for me; I've added the bolding for emphasis):

the rulebook for Apocalypse World is very clear: the game is a conversation; the players say what their PCs do; if everyone looks to the GM to see what happens next the GM makes a soft move, or as hard and direct a move as they like if an opportunity is handed on a platter; but if you do it, you do it and the normal conversation is "interrupted" by a roll of the dice to resolve the move that has been triggered.

 

[pemerton]

none of those say anything remotely close to what @hawkeyefan was able to clearly say about AW rules.

I had actually quoted the relevant rule back upthread, well before @hawkeyefan posted and you started asking these questions: I have reposted it, just upthread, twice to try and make it clear. It is found on p 109, and is the bit where the rules say that "The players’ job is to say what their characters say and undertake to do, first and exclusively". So if a player says what their PC does, than that happens. If it also triggers a player-side move, then the dice are rolled, and the resulting outcome will tell some or other participant (often but not always the GM) that it is their job to say something.

If it doesn't trigger a player side move, then the conversation continues as per p 109. If it is the GM's turn to speak, whether because a move said so or because the conversation turns to them (given what it is their job to say), they make a move from the list of GM moves.

 

[Lanefan]

Can anyone point me to the rule in DnD that says if you swallow a big rock it'll mess up your stomach? There's no explicit text saying so, so I assume I can eat a whole bunch of rocks and experience no negative effects.

Encumbrance rules might want a word if you eat enough of those big rocks before any come out the other end.

 

[Autumnal]

It's in the D&D (Death and Dismemberment) clause on your health insurance rider...

But my insurance always goes on foot.

 

[MichaelSomething]

I think Apocalypse World supports and explains it's play style as well as D&D does!

 

[pemerton]

But my insurance always goes on foot.

Where's the groan emoji?!?!

 

[niklinna]

Where's the groan emoji?!?!

I think this is the best you get:

 

[loverdrive]

IMO, if you are making the analogy that acting outside a move while not waiting on the GM to make a move is essentially similar to being between innings of a baseball game, then I’d suggest that’s better evidence that players don’t act in the game outside moves. That is, this analogy supports the notion that everything players do in AW must be a move. Thus, certainly the initial proposition that’s been mocked as silly is then not a silly proposition.

In almost any RPG game you wait for what the GM will say to your action. That's kinda how roleplaying games work.

"Player looks at you" has no relation whatsoever to player moves. It's a trigger for a GM move, which I will touch on later.
Player moves are rules on how to handle a specific situation. They have a trigger: "When you go aggro...", "when you try to seduce, manipulate, bluff, fast-talk, or lie to someone...", "at the end of every session..." Some people think that if there is no move that is triggered by a specific action, player can't take said action and that is a silly proposition.

Now, on GM moves. When GM makes a move, she just opens her mouth and says what will happen next. Like in any other RPG, but with an important caveat: something must happen next.

There is no "open a door in the dungeon" player move in Dungeon World, but when you open a door in the dungeon you look at the GM to see what happens next and GM makes a move. In, say, D&D "You enter into a small room. There is a weird deformed statue in the center." is a perfectly legal things to say, but in Dungeon World it must be followed with something along the lines of "...and you feel, in your bones, that it is watching you. What ya gonna do?"

 

[loverdrive]

So I’m going to ask you directly does AW provide rules or rulebook guidance for how to handle situations where the player has the PC do an action that isn’t a move?

Explicitly, like, "here's what to do when the action isn't covered by a player move"? It doesn't.

Doesn't need to either.

There is a general rule: when the player looks at GM* to see what happens next, GM makes a GM move. Player moves are exceptions to this general rule, when the action PC takes is covered by a player move available to them, GM doesn't just make their move, instead both GM and player work through the wording of the move and do what it says.

*If the GM can't physically know whether player is looking at them or not, say, because it's online play or GM or player is blind, just use your brain. Treat it as "there is a questioning pause" or whatever. If player doesn't make a pause and doesn't care what results their action will have, then, who cares?

In Dungeon World, Fighter has a move "Bend bars, lift gates". It says:

When you use pure strength to destroy an inanimate obstacle, roll+Str. On a 10+, choose 3. On a 7-9 choose 2.

• It doesn’t take a very long time
• Nothing of value is damaged
• It doesn’t make an inordinate amount of noise
• You can fix the thing again without a lot of effort

So when Fighter tries to break down a door with a kick, this move is triggered. They roll +Str, get, let's say, 9 and choose, let's say, "Nothing of value is damaged" and "It doesn't take a very long time". GM then narrates what results this will have, knowing that her narration can't involve something of value being damaged or the process taking long time, but can involve, say, goblins in the dungeon hearing the ruckus.

When Cleric who doesn't have access to this move tries to break down a door with a kick, nothing of this happens. GM just makes a move. Any move she likes. Including, say, "This is of no use. The door doesn't budge, and you hear goblins running in through another passage. What ya gonna do?"

For the record: I'm using Dungeon World because it's the only game where I can think of a mundane action being covered by a move for one playbook and not for another, and, for the record, I don't think it's a particularly good design.