D&D 5E [+]Exploration Falls Short For Many Groups, Let’s Talk About It

[Hussar]

does anyone else think that comprehend languages is too powerful/useful for being a first level spell? given that it manages to obviliate a large section of a kind of obstacle, is it a convenience that we've just come to expect having?

could comprehend languages be, say, a third level spell that only works on spoken language and only begins to work on written text when upcast to fifth, and would it be better for gameplay that way?

At third level, it’s called Tongues and already does that.

 

[Hussar]

Seriously man they don’t have to.

Like the reason there is always a refutation is that none of this stuff works all the time, and a lot of it is more limited than folks think.

Like being able to read all writing still doesn’t confer knowledge of cyphers, cultural knowledge, context, etc. if someone has the ability to read all languages great! That means deciphering the text isn’t the challenge, and sometimes there won’t be challenge where you might like there to be, but it’s a group game. Every single PC should be dictating the campaign.

So the creation of “Shadespeak” isn’t a direct result of Comprehend Languages?

But again this is going exactly the same as always. Every example gets laser beam focused and we ignore the hundreds of previous examples as if we had the memory of a goldfish.

We cannot resolve this issue by simply ignoring it or pretending that each problem exists in a vacuum. It’s a systemic issue that will always be a problem.

But since this is a plus thread, that’s me out.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

So the creation of “Shadespeak” isn’t a direct result of Comprehend Languages?

But again this is going exactly the same as always. Every example gets laser beam focused and we ignore the hundreds of previous examples as if we had the memory of a goldfish.

We cannot resolve this issue by simply ignoring it or pretending that each problem exists in a vacuum. It’s a systemic issue that will always be a problem.

But since this is a plus thread, that’s me out.

I mean examples of anything will get dissected if they don’t make sense to someone. Thats just discussions.

Thats why I’ve often said that dealing with examples, as well as metaphors and analogies, is mostly a waste of time.

 

[mamba]

I recommend The Monster Overhaul, one of the best source books for fantasy gaming I have ever seen.

huh, that has travel rules? I thought it is basically an MM

 

[doctorbadwolf]

So the creation of “Shadespeak” isn’t a direct result of Comprehend Languages?

But again this is going exactly the same as always. Every example gets laser beam focused and we ignore the hundreds of previous examples as if we had the memory of a goldfish.

We cannot resolve this issue by simply ignoring it or pretending that each problem exists in a vacuum. It’s a systemic issue that will always be a problem.

But since this is a plus thread, that’s me out.

Also, please don’t act like half the people in this thread haven’t refuted the underlying arguments these ill advised examples are meant to back up.

We are literally here to discuss exploration.

There are always threads for arguing about how to rewrite the game to your own preferences.

 

[Micah Sweet]

huh, that has travel rules? I thought it is basically an MM

It is, but it has a lot of encounter tables and color, both excellent for exploration.

 

[bloodtide]

Exploration is silly within the current frame of D&D and its magic largely makes challenges and obstacles meaningless...
unless one homebrews and/or steals the journey/travel rules from other fantasy RPGs.

I love exploration myself....so I make it part of the game.

The Big One: XP for Exploration. Using the ancient 2E D&D, and the BECMI D&D experience rules. So characters can get XP for all sorts of actions in general. And the important one is XP per class. Each class, and only each class, gets xp for doing things related to their class.

A great example is that a wizard can get a bunch of XP for discovering a new spell or finding a lost spell or find an ancient spell. This gives the wizard a big reason to explore. Fighters get xp for defeated New monsters. The more exotic the better. Fight a 'new' monster get XP, kill it get XP and make it a trophy, get XP.

I build on this for each class, and background and archtype or whatever else.

Two: Resource Tracking. Item saves and damage and destruction and loss. This provides another reason for characters to explore to find needed things.

Three: Everything Treasure. 5E D&D is a bit locked into the only treasure is money and magic items. But there is so much more. Lots of natural and supernatural things can give all sorts of bonuses or effects. From the mundane, to semi magical all the way to magical. Plants are a great one here. You can have all sorts of rare things out there to be discovered.....and the best are the unique things. Back in Ye Old D&D a typical adventure would have an odd thing or two. A unique thing or two that was useful, like a healing pool or a time portal. In 3.5E they made touchstones and nodules, and that idea still works great in 5E.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I think that the solution to this is to introduce a separate resource to be honest. Something that isn't really directly tied to the characters. Maybe a group resource - like time or whatever. You only have so many actions per time period, you can use those actions to negate some or all of the potential encounters (which may be good, bad or neutral) but, it will always be a balancing act between having enough Exploration Points (yeah, sucky name, I suck at naming stuff) for the party and being able to continue exploring.

This seems a bit abstract, but what if we did something like Adventuring Days. You have X adventuring days to reach the wilderness mcguffin. Each time you long rest, -1 adventuring day. Adventuring days represent a mix of endurance, food and water, healing resources, all the things we don't want to track. You can buy adventuring days in town. If you run out of adventuring days, start making increasingly difficult CON checks to avoid dying of fatigue and exposure and illness. If you move through hostile terrain (desert, mountain, the gray waste), maybe it saps -2 or -3 adventuring days per rest. Wilderness characters can restore adventuring days on the road (goodberry gives +1 adventuring day, but no more than that).

IDK, I think it's not super necessary, but maybe I'm just content with HP/HD as the thing we're spending in the wilderness...

What would make a DM's job easier is a book of wildernesses, just like a book of dungeons would be valuable.

 

[Maxperson]

This seems a bit abstract, but what if we did something like Adventuring Days. You have X adventuring days to reach the wilderness mcguffin. Each time you long rest, -1 adventuring day. Adventuring days represent a mix of endurance, food and water, healing resources, all the things we don't want to track. You can buy adventuring days in town. If you run out of adventuring days, start making increasingly difficult CON checks to avoid dying of fatigue and exposure and illness. If you move through hostile terrain (desert, mountain, the gray waste), maybe it saps -2 or -3 adventuring days per rest. Wilderness characters can restore adventuring days on the road (goodberry gives +1 adventuring day, but no more than that).

IDK, I think it's not super necessary, but maybe I'm just content with HP/HD as the thing we're spending in the wilderness...

What would make a DM's job easier is a book of wildernesses, just like a book of dungeons would be valuable.

I wouldn't mind seeing something like that as an optional rule in the DMG, but I wouldn't want to use it myself. It would make D&D feel more about the game to me and less about the roleplaying.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

This seems a bit abstract, but what if we did something like Adventuring Days. You have X adventuring days to reach the wilderness mcguffin. Each time you long rest, -1 adventuring day. Adventuring days represent a mix of endurance, food and water, healing resources, all the things we don't want to track. You can buy adventuring days in town. If you run out of adventuring days, start making increasingly difficult CON checks to avoid dying of fatigue and exposure and illness. If you move through hostile terrain (desert, mountain, the gray waste), maybe it saps -2 or -3 adventuring days per rest. Wilderness characters can restore adventuring days on the road (goodberry gives +1 adventuring day, but no more than that).

IDK, I think it's not super necessary, but maybe I'm just content with HP/HD as the thing we're spending in the wilderness...

What would make a DM's job easier is a book of wildernesses, just like a book of dungeons would be valuable.

This made me think about my wargaming roots but instead of adventuring days call it supply. If the party is in supply then they can operate at full efficiency and long rest as normal. If out of supply they operate at reduced efficiency but have an opportunity to get back in supply before the really bad stuff happens.