D&D General Social Pillar Mechanics: Where do you stand?

[Reynard]

I think that for any game, part of the success of such rules would be to recognize when a situation constitute a "social combat" and when it is not. All social encounter shouldn't need that level of granularity. Even if a game has complex social encounter rules, I could see whole campaigns doing without them.

It is always best to use the right tool for the job. D&D would do well to have both simple and complex social encounter rules, along with both simple and complex combat encounter rules.

 

[Andvari]

I generally lean on having fewer mechanics that can interfere with role-playing. I leave it up to players when they want to role-play in-character or explain in third person what their character does. I generally don't like expectations of rolls granting near-mind control of NPCs or lie detection. An initial roll to improve reactions of most NPCs as the bard introduces the party is fine, but other than that, anyone should be allowed to participate without fear of being punished for having low "role-playing stats" when they dare speak to an NPC. If the PCs try to bribe a corrupt guard, it just works. No roll required.

 

[Laurefindel]

I generally lean on having fewer mechanics that can interfere with role-playing. I leave it up to players when they want to role-play in-character or explain in third person what their character does. I generally don't like expectations of rolls granting near-mind control of NPCs or lie detection. An initial roll to improve reactions of most NPCs as the bard introduces the party is fine, but other than that, anyone should be allowed to participate without fear of being punished for having low "role-playing stats" when they dare speak to an NPC. If the PCs try to bribe a corrupt guard, it just works. No roll required.

3e's diplomancers could get pretty absurd...

 

[CreamCloud0]

[emphasis mine]
In D&D, a character to positively contribute in combat despite having a low Str score in may ways. In 5e at any case, a 7 Str, 18 Dex fighter can excel even in melee with finesse weapons. Even without Str and Dex, spells allow all kinds of contribution in combat, not to mention stat substitution abilities like the Hexblade Warlock. Other RPG do that to a different extent.

even if your post is making valid points about the issues of social stuff only keying off a single stat, we both know those other situations are not what i meant when i described an '8 STR fighter' pulling off that maneuvre.

 

[SteveC]

I've written about this before, but it is a really interesting topic. I sort of do both.

I think that mechanics are very important for social situations because if you have social skills, and yet you don't use them, why didn't you invest somewhere else? And similarly, if you have a low charisma and no social skills, yet roleplay as super-smooth, aren't you stepping on the toes of the player who did invest on those things? And, and this is very important, if you're not a social person (a very common person to play RPGs) are you just locked out of being persuasive?

What I do is look at what the PC is saying and then look at if that approach creates and possible objections on the NPC's part. If there's no reason not to do something, the action just happens, like it would when there's no consequences for any other sort of action.

And then I roll. I take the PC's method into account and might give a bonus or penalty, but we roll. And that's it. The problem comes in when you get a very swingy roll of course, but I leave those cases as "requires an additional check/different approach."

 

[Corinnguard]

So where do you stand on the topic of social pillar mechanics? Do you think a courtroom debate or plea to the king should be governed by players and GMs roleplaying, or by game mechanics, or something in between. How do you feel about old school reaction rolls, and/or modern Persuasion checks? And if mechanics should play a bigger part in the social pillar, how should those mechanics be "distributed" among classes? That is, should there be a "face" class or should everyone be able to use those mechanics?

Level Up has it where each class has one or more social interaction features in addition to those belonging to the combat and exploration pillars. As a result, any class can be become the face of the party in a given situation. For instance, when a Fighter reaches 10th level, they gain the Reputation feature and gain one of three options as their reputation precedes them:

INSPIRING​

You’re a reputed leader, a person to be trusted whose words are to be heeded. You gain an expertise die on Persuasion checks. In addition, you may spend 1 exertion point as a bonus action to inspire a creature that can hear you. The creature makes an Insight check opposed by your Persuasion check, becoming inspired by you on a failure. Indifferent creatures you inspire in this way become friendly towards you and your allies, and friendly creatures you inspire in this way will consider you an ally and may provide you with local information that would otherwise remain secret. Creatures will remain inspired by you indefinitely unless you do something that would make them hostile or lose confidence in you, such as lying, stealing, or causing them or their allies harm, or being proven cowardly or untrustworthy in any way.

INTIMIDATING​

You’re reputed to be a terror to your foes and a fearsome ally. You gain an expertise die on Intimidation checks. In addition, you can use a bonus action and spend 1 exertion point to intimidate one creature you can see. The creature makes a Wisdom saving throw (DC 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Charisma modifier) or becomes frightened of you for 1 minute. At the end of each of its turns, a frightened creature can repeat the saving throw, ending the effect on itself on a success.

LEGENDARY​

Your deeds have become epic stories, growing bigger and more outlandish with each retelling. You gain an expertise die on Deception checks. In addition, you can spend 1 exertion point to weave your real legendary deeds into a Persuasion check as boasting, or include fabricated legendary deeds into a Deception check. When you do so, you have advantage on the check.

 

[Reynard]

I think that mechanics are very important for social situations because if you have social skills, and yet you don't use them, why didn't you invest somewhere else?

On this in particular: I like the idea of siloing the character generation resources for each pillar of play. That way every character has combat abilities, exploration abilities and social abilities. I am not sure precisely how to do that with D&D, though.

 

[payn]

On this in particular: I like the idea of siloing the character generation resources for each pillar of play. That way every character has combat abilities, exploration abilities and social abilities. I am not sure precisely how to do that with D&D, though.

It's a conundrum for sure. PF2 tried it but the proficiency system and making everything a feat has some rough feeling aspects to it. I dont think modeling all pillars under the same dynamic is the best approach.

 

[Reynard]

It's a conundrum for sure. PF2 tried it but the proficiency system and making everything a feat has some rough feeling aspects to it. I dont think modeling all pillars under the same dynamic is the best approach.

Yeah. I think folks -- players and designer alike -- make too much of unified mechanics. Systems that can be bolted on or taken off without harming other systems are superior, IMO.

 

[Corinnguard]

On this in particular: I like the idea of siloing the character generation resources for each pillar of play. That way every character has combat abilities, exploration abilities and social abilities. I am not sure precisely how to do that with D&D, though.

The best way would be to have class features representing each pillar.

The 5e Fighter has features that are pretty much geared toward the combat pillar. Fighting Style, Second Wind, Action Surge, Extra Attack and Indomitable. They don't have features that are useful for Exploration or Social Interaction.

The Level Up Fighter otoh has:

Combat: Fighting Style, Combat Maneuvers, Maneuver Specialization, Reserves, Indomitable, and Warmaster
Exploration: Soldering Knacks, Martial Lore
Social Interaction: Steely Mien, War's Toil, Martial Legacy, Reputation

Fighter | Level Up

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