D&D General Explain Bounded Accuracy to Me (As if I Was Five)

[Gammadoodler]

All you need for Perception to be desirable for almost everyone is for there to be any separation of characters, even by a small distance, in potentially hostile situations.



You don't want to be forced to get by otherwise when a jumping or climbing roll is forced on you.

Yep, same with insight, though to a lesser degree. If there is a god skill in D&D, perception is it.

In my experience, jumping and climbing are rarely significant challenges much beyond 5th level, and become less so as time goes on. Spells, class abilities, and/or a single strong dude in the party can take care of most of them.

 

[ezo]

Yep, same with insight, though to a lesser degree. If there is a god skill in D&D, perception is it.

Oddly, I've never found it so. Unless my PC is a "scout" type, I rarely ever bother with it. But, I know a lot of people take it.

If anything, I think it is because too many groups use Perception at times when Investigation or Insight would be more appropriate.

I think the skill I probably take the most is Athletics. Not only for climbing and jumping, but swimming, too! And of course since it is used for grappling and can be used to escape a grapple. Low STR PCs or high STR, doesn't matter... I probably take Athletics 80% of the time or more.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Oddly, I've never found it so. Unless my PC is a "scout" type, I rarely ever bother with it. But, I know a lot of people take it.

If anything, I think it is because too many groups use Perception at times when Investigation or Insight would be more appropriate.

I think the skill I probably take the most is Athletics. Not only for climbing and jumping, but swimming, too! And of course since it is used for grappling and can be used to escape a grapple. Low STR PCs or high STR, doesn't matter... I probably take Athletics 80% of the time or more.

I expect it's related to my comments regarding skill overlap from earlier. If you have on good scout person, and you don't split up much, having a second isn't that valuable. If you split up often, you generally want each group to have a scout person (i.e. perception proficiency or better)

My most common is almost certainly Stealth. Likely a lot of that is how many PCs rely on Dex for AC and/or attack. Just too applicable, too often, on too many different types of PCs.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Yep, same with insight, though to a lesser degree. If there is a god skill in D&D, perception is it.

Most adventure games, honestly.

In my experience, jumping and climbing are rarely significant challenges much beyond 5th level, and become less so as time goes on. Spells, class abilities, and/or a single strong dude in the party can take care of most of them.

May well be true in D&D 5e.

 

[pemerton]

Holy conflation Batman! Gygax is talking about hit points and saving throws, not skills.

AD&D - at the time Gygax is writing the passage I quoted - doesn't have a skill system. Gygax refers to "the accumulation of hit points and the ever-greater abilities and better saving throws" of characters. The ever-greater abilities of 4e PCs include increasing skill bonuses.

 

[ezo]

I expect it's related to my comments regarding skill overlap from earlier. If you have on good scout person, and you don't split up much, having a second isn't that valuable. If you split up often, you generally want each group to have a scout person (i.e. perception proficiency or better)

We pretty much always have two "stealth" PCs, a primary and secondary. The secondary usually acts as the relay person between the point (primary scout) and the rest of the party. The secondary is also there in case the group has to separate for whatever reason.

A secondary isn't necessary 9 times out of 10, but is awfully useful and convenient.

My most common is almost certainly Stealth. Likely a lot of that is how many PCs rely on Dex for AC and/or attack. Just too applicable, too often, on too many different types of PCs.

Interesting. In the groups I play in we always (or nearly so!) have a PC in heavy armor (or two), so stealth as a whole isn't a priority. Now, we also implement group checks for stealth a lot, so the weak links are shored up by the sneaky PCs. Commonly spells like pass without trace, enhance ability, etc. are also used to shore up any issues.

 

[Maxperson]

Is it though?

There's nothing elsewhere in the class or either of the two PHB subclasses that refers to Jack of all Trades. The ability itself has no narrative justification or flavor description at all.. and at various subsequent levels, they get additional skill proficiencies and/or expertise which supersede Jack of all Trades. And on top of all that, it's not like there's a bunch of support from the class writeup. It's so focused on magic and music, there's barely a mention of skills at all.

Near as I can tell it's a thing that they get, sure. But there's no real reason, outside of inertia, that they should have it or that it should be limited to just them.

I mean, the main class literally says...

"A bard's life is spent wandering across the land gathering lore, telling stories, and living on the gratitude of audiences, much like any other entertainer. But a depth of knowledge, a level of musical skill, and a touch of magic set bards apart from their fellows."

And...

"Only rarely do bards settle in one place for long, and their natural desire to travel-to find new tales to tell, new skills to learn, and new discoveries beyond the horizon-makes an adventuring career a natural calling. Every adventure is an opportunity to learn, practice a variety of skills, enter long-forgotten tombs..."

Jack of all trades is there in the base class.

 

[Maxperson]

AD&D - at the time Gygax is writing the passage I quoted - doesn't have a skill system. Gygax refers to "the accumulation of hit points and the ever-greater abilities and better saving throws" of characters. The ever-greater abilities of 4e PCs include increasing skill bonuses.

Right. Gygax wasn't talking about skills. Abilities =/= skills. You are conflating saves and hit points with skills when it doesn't apply.

When it comes down to it, both sides are correct in this. I makes sense and is correct for someone who is quasi-divine to have innate skill in everything if you want it to be that way. It also makes sense and is correct for someone, even divine someones to be poor at skills they wouldn't have. Thor disguised himself and could be stealthy, but he wasn't a thief or academic so sleight of hand and arcane knowledge were not things that he would have any skill at. You can go either way and have it make sense if that's how you want to structure the fiction.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Oddly, I've never found it so. Unless my PC is a "scout" type, I rarely ever bother with it. But, I know a lot of people take it.

If anything, I think it is because too many groups use Perception at times when Investigation or Insight would be more appropriate.

I think the skill I probably take the most is Athletics. Not only for climbing and jumping, but swimming, too! And of course since it is used for grappling and can be used to escape a grapple. Low STR PCs or high STR, doesn't matter... I probably take Athletics 80% of the time or more.

It's because a lot of things--traps, hazards, clues that there's something wrong (e.g. that you're about to get ambushed), resistance to being surprised, etc.--depend on personal Perception score, not whether someone got a good result.

Insight is generally well-structured in that folks understand it's about divining a person's intent. It's a social Wisdom skill.

Investigation is frankly just weird. Even the designers can't seem to settle on whether it's EXCLUSIVELY "take the information you already have and figure out what it means" (which...basically just means "skip the part where the player has to fit the clues together himself"), or whether it's "examine the environment from a logical-deductive standpoint rather than an observational one" (which...makes it really hard to distinguish from Perception.)

 

[Gammadoodler]

I mean, the main class literally says...

"A bard's life is spent wandering across the land gathering lore, telling stories, and living on the gratitude of audiences, much like any other entertainer. But a depth of knowledge, a level of musical skill, and a touch of magic set bards apart from their fellows."

And...

"Only rarely do bards settle in one place for long, and their natural desire to travel-to find new tales to tell, new skills to learn, and new discoveries beyond the horizon-makes an adventuring career a natural calling. Every adventure is an opportunity to learn, practice a variety of skills, enter long-forgotten tombs..."

Jack of all trades is there in the base class.

Ok. So the full measure of their reason for acquiring more skills is that they

A. Wander the land, and
B. Go on adventures

If only the other classes could do these things?

..wait..hold on..that can't be right.