WotC Hasbro CEO Chris Cox talks about D&D on NPRs Here & Now. Topics include Layoffs and OGL.

[Alzrius]

Dunno about "other people". I only speak for myself.

Oh you do, do you? So when you said that "everyone" abandoned the OGL, you just meant that you abandoned it? Because while that certainly makes a lot more sense, it's an...interesting, way of phrasing that particular declaration of personal disengagement with the license.

Can you say the same?

"The same"? You haven't established that there's a premise from which to claim said same-ness.

Oh good. Appeal to authority as well. At least it's a good university.

Ah yes, distrust of empirical research. Always the sign of intellectual honesty.

No one claimed that the OGL didn't result in more creativity. Let alone me.

When you say that the so-called "death" of the OGL is the "healthiest thing" for the hobby, then you should expect to be misunderstood if you didn't mean that less OGL meant more creativity.

So, I'm not sure why you're quoting this at me. But, at the end of the day, we're simply never going to agree on this. You believe that this has had this huge, ongoing, negative impact on the hobby. I believe that it had a huge, negative impact on the hobby that was quickly resolved and has resulted in a healthier hobby going forward.

Time will tell which of us is right. But, until then, neither of us is going to convince each other of anything.

So is this the part where you make good on having the self-awareness that you're not contributing anything positive anymore?

You believe WotC has enough money and lawyers to bring down the Creative Commons License? Again, I don't think we're going to agree on this.

...apparently not. Called it!

That said, I'll go ahead and presume that you're actually having trouble reading what I wrote instead of being disingenuous in your interpretation, so I'll try and make it simpler for you:

WotC doesn't need to try and "bring down" Creative Commons. They just have to scare people away from using its iteration of the 5.1 SRD, by threatening to sue them over a made-up legal-sounding reason that lets them "revoke" their having added said 5.1 SRD to it. And if that sounds ridiculous to you, then just remember that's what we all said right before they did the same thing with the OGL.

 

[Mistwell]

Given how lagging they are with releasing the other SRDs (and no, that "we need to review them" excuse does not hold water, considering that they've been "reviewed" by the entire community for over two decades; there's no IP that they need to worry about in them), can you understand why some people are skeptical?

On the contrary, I'd say there's more reason to support it now than ever.

Literally, new OGL products came out today, so I don't think that you know what you're talking about, here.

Scratch that. I know that you don't.

Except for all the people who fought to save it. Sounds to me like you just don't understand its value.

Keep telling yourself that. The idea of "WotC's revocation is on dubious legal ground, and would probably fail in court, but since they have enough money and lawyers to make fighting a legal battle bankrupt anyone they file suit against, it doesn't really matter," applies just as easily to CC as it does to the OGL.

See above. It's still alive, and if even WotC couldn't kill it, naysayers and cynics certainly can't.

I am of the belief there is nothing WOTC could really do to earn your trust back. You keep claiming there is, while every step of the way demonstrating there isn't. Which...kind of feels like that "Keep telling yourself that" sort of concept you just mentioned.

If that's the case - doesn't that end the discussion?

 

[Alzrius]

I am of the belief there is nothing WOTC could really do to earn your trust back.

Well, I'm pretty sure I know me better than you do. So I don't find your belief very convincing.

You keep claiming there is, while every step of the way demonstrating there isn't.

I'm almost tempted to ask what you think constitutes a "demonstration," except...no, I'm actually not tempted at all.

Which...kind of feels like that "Keep telling yourself that" sort of concept you just mentioned.

If that's the case - doesn't that end the discussion?

For you, perhaps.

 

[Mistwell]

Well, I'm pretty sure I know me better than you do. So I don't find your belief very convincing.

I'm almost tempted to ask what you think constitutes a "demonstration," except...no, I'm actually not tempted at all.

For you, perhaps.

Sure but you don't find WOTC very convincing in what they say, so much so that you derailed an entire thread concerning what they're saying, so why would we trust what you're claiming would satisfy you? Even in your list of things you claim would satisfy you, you kept adding an "and another thing" to your list. Why wouldn't you just keep doing that if they did the initial things you asked?

 

[mamba]

And as far as releasing 2024 as CC, well, ok. But continuously asking for this as a condition for trust when they haven’t actually released 2024 yet seems a bit hard for them to actually do.

I am not continually asking them. I keep answering what it takes for them to ‘be forgiven’ for the attempt when you or others ask what more they could possibly have done

I do not expect them to release it now, that would make no sense. I am waiting for them to do so before buying the 2024 books however. I am in no rush to switch and that is a precondition

 

[mamba]

While I wasn’t a fan of WoTC trying to back out of the OGL I also understand that even having something like an OGL is rare among companies and even other publishers but people act like they are owed the OGL.

given that they released it and its wording, yes, we are owed the OGL

They have every right to not provide a new SRD under it, see 4e, but they have no right to attempt to revoke it

If they provide no new SRD for 2024, they are free to do so, and I am free to part ways with them.

 

[Charlaquin]

Sorry. Let me rephrase. How many homebrew magic cards are allowed in play?

Depends who you play with. How many homebrew D&D classes are allowed in adventure’s league?

 

[mamba]

None of whom publish anything with the 5.1 SRD. They're not going to step up and be the ones to fight a court case over WotC saying "this (utterly made up) technicality lets us withdraw the 5.1 SRD from the CC, and none of the rest of the Creative Commons are affected."

they would, because either that technicality exists and then anyone could do the same for whatever they put under CC, or it does not and the CC remains in force for everyone

All WotC can do is not release a new SRD under CC, they have zero chance to even threaten to revoke the current one

 

[Charlaquin]

Well this forum brought out the usual suspects when it comes to WoTC bitterness. I don’t trust any corporations though I certainly can respect some of their employees.

While I wasn’t a fan of WoTC trying to back out of the OGL I also understand that even having something like an OGL is rare among companies and even other publishers but people act like they are owed the OGL.

I mean, when you promise your customers something in perpetuity, you do kinda owe it to them not to take that thing away later. The creation of the OGL was certainly remarkable, but it worked out to WotC’s benefit. And the fact that it was remarkable to initially create doesn’t make the attempt to later retract it unharmful to the brand.

 

[Charlaquin]

Again, WotC doesn't have to be able to withdraw from it, any more than they had to be able to actually revoke the OGL. They just have to say it, making sure everyone knows they have the money and lawyers to bankrupt you in court regardless of how bogus their claims are. Then, voila: all of a sudden, people lose confidence in the CC's rendition of the 5.1 SRD.

Eh, the CC is a lot harder to do that with than the OGL was. With the OGL, WotC had a case to make that replacing it with a 2.0 version was legal. It probably wasn’t a sound case, but it was enough that the threat of a protracted legal battle over the matter was real. With the CC, they would have no case at all, and a lot more investment from outside the tabletop gaming industry in insuring WotC couldn’t (successfully) pull such a stunt.