D&D 5E The Magical Martial

[Cadence]

Or you know, Australia. Weirder things than owlbears actually exist on Earth.

Yells, "No feathers! But no feathers!" and then just gives up.

 

[Chaosmancer]

All you need to do is say they have a supernatural crafting technique that allows them to make magic items. That's it. It's really not that hard. You just seem to really dislike that sentence.

I don't dislike the sentence. First off, I was explaining what OTHER PEOPLE would argue, nothing to do with what I think.

Secondly, I just think it is pointlessly unnecessary. Every crafting technique the smith could use might be supernatural. The very act of singing while you hammer the steel might be supernatural. I don't feel the need to point out "this smith is normal, this one is supernatural, this one is normal but really skilled, this one is supernatural but only on tuesdays" it isn't serving any purpose for me. It is just wasted effort so that people can pretend a fantasy world is just like Europe in 1415.

 

[Chaosmancer]

You don't speak for the majority of players. Please don't attempt to do so, as if that matters at all anyway.

You keep wanting us to change or do things because it is what you want. I'm simply pointing out that the designers and most players disagree with you.

And if Beowulf were in a game and not a story he would have supernatural (or extraordinary) abilities, because he does things normal humans can't, and because stories and games are different things.

So... nowhere. Nowhere in the text does it say Beowulf has supernatural or extraordinary abilities. You are just saying he does, because he is doing things a normal human cannot do....

Great! That's wonderful actually.

So fighter's are supernatural (or Extraordinary) because they can swim in full plate without penalty. Which a normal human cannot do. Unless you are going to demand a double standard?

 

[Chaosmancer]

For example, if I stepped through portal and started seeing people jumping 15' in the air, I would definitely question what the heck was going on!

I would question where the heck a portal came from! After stepping through an impossible gateway to another world, and seeing people bounding two stories into the air, the next thing I would do is try and jump and see if I could do the same.

If I couldn't... clearly these people on the other side of this impossible portal in a land that isn't Earth... aren't like me!

 

[Chaosmancer]

It doesn't, but he is. Beowulf rips of Grendel's arm (who is giant IIRC). It takes about 2000lbs of force to rip an average humans arm off. The WR for deadlift is just over 1000lbs. That is superhuman strength.

I find odd/interesting in this whole discussion is that I think it lessons the story if we think Beowulf is not supernaturally strong.

Does it? He was stronger than other men, but does that mean he was supernatural? The story is just like "Beowulf was incredibly strong!" They didn't need any explanation for it. That was just how he was.

It was clear with the Greeks, almost all, if not all, the heroes were had some divine blood that gave them their extraordinary strength. The Greeks knew their heroes were beyond mortal bounds.

Most greek heroes DIDN'T have extraordinary strength, and sure, their heroes had god blood. So did their kings. So did their politicians. So did a lot of people. The constantly had people who claimed lineage with great heroes, who had lineage with the gods, so that they could have lineage with the gods. Why? Because it gave them authority. Anyone important had god blood, because if they didn't have god blood or a god's blessing... they wouldn't be important.

 

[Chaosmancer]

if the setting itself is extraordinary, then the fighter or rogue who are in it, when they themselves do extraordinary things, like punching through steel plate or dodging all the damage of a fireball without moving out the radius, are merely ordinary in the setting, and don't need magic or supernatural abilities to do so.

But they do still need abilities that say they can do so. Label them whatever, the abilities currently don't exist, and should.

 

[CreamCloud0]

But they do still need abilities that say they can do so. Label them whatever, the abilities currently don't exist, and should.

true of course, but that is tangential to if those hypothetical abilities are considered extraordinary or supernatural/magical by the standards of the world was my point.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I am sometimes tempted to pull out the monster manuals, and just count all the magical or supernatural creatures in it. Combine that with all the non-human species, all the semi- to fully magical subclasses, all the feats requiring magic of some sort... and present that number as a percentage to the people who want to insist on running DnD as Game of Thrones.

Just in species, to run a world as "fully human" you would be cutting out 97.6% of all species options.

The most terrifying weapon of war in the entire series, is a young adult red dragon. Technically, not even that because a true DnD dragon is far more intelligent and magical. They would be CR 10. The most powerful things in a DnD setting make that dragon seem like an adorable kitten.

I just don't get using the DnD rule set, while cutting the vast majority of DnD content. Then being upset when people want the DnD content to match, by claiming that they only realy care about that small percentage you are trying to change, and how dare you remove their ability to ignore most of the game.

 

[Chaosmancer]

true of course, but that is tangential to if those hypothetical abilities are considered extraordinary or supernatural/magical by the standards of the world was my point.

Yeah, but that discussion is why we can't get beyond this same point.

By the standards of the fantasy world... magic is normal. Studying magic isn't extraordinary, it might not even be seen as "magical". At least no more magical than chemistry or engineering in the real world.

The label doesn't matter to them. It just is how the world works. The only reason the label matters, is for us, as the players and DMs. But even then... the difference is pure semantics.

But because we somehow need to determine if a Fire Giant Goliath who can catch their weapon on fire can have extraordinary abilities as a fighter, or supernatural abilities as a fighter... we never actually get to the point of giving the fighter any abilities!

 

[dave2008]

Giants throw boulders starting at 19 strength.
a human can throw a boulder of their relative size with the same 19 strength.

So a commoner born with 19 strength can throw a boulder

No, giants can't throw the boulder I described the distance I described (at least not any edition of D&D I am aware of and definitely not 5e where the weakest giant (hill) starts at 21)

So I will make it simple:

Commoner: max strength 16; max strength with training 18

Strength needed to throw a 10 ton boulder 1 mile: 50

What level does a PC need to be to get a strength 50?