D&D 5E The Magical Martial

[CreamCloud0]

Then what's wrong with saying that? Why so much resistance to the addition of a small note about this?

it's more the fact that everything else in the books seems to be yelling in it's subtext and implications that it's the case yet you seem staunchly opposed to accepting any of that until you get this one explicit line to say it is so, i may be incorrect but i feel like you've even previously agreed in one thread or another that the subtext is there yet wont do anything about it until you get the straight confirmation.

so yes, it would be GREAT if we could get a line for the explicit confirmation that these aren't 'just earth humans', we all already agree with that but the books aren't going to edit that one line in overnight and 98% of us don't need that one sentence to give us the go ahead to assume human martials are capable of extraordinary things without magic or supernatural aid, the resistance is against the fact that this tired tangent you insist on every time the topic is broached brings any progress to a screeching halt until you get that confimation yourself, we provide evidence and explainations to you and we just want to move past justifying it already.

 

[Micah Sweet]

it's more the fact that everything else in the books seems to be yelling in it's subtext and implications that it's the case yet you seem staunchly opposed to accepting any of that until you get this one explicit line to say it is so, i may be incorrect but i feel like you've even previously agreed in one thread or another that the subtext is there yet wont do anything about it until you get the straight confirmation.

so yes, it would be GREAT if we could get a line for the explicit confirmation that these aren't 'just earth humans', we all already agree with that but the books aren't going to edit that one line in overnight and 98% of us don't need that one sentence to give us the go ahead to assume human martials are capable of extraordinary things without magic or supernatural aid, the resistance is against the fact that this tired tangent you insist on every time the topic is broached brings any progress to a screeching halt until you get that confimation yourself, we provide evidence and explainations to you and we just want to move past justifying it already.

So your argument is that virtually everyone in the community agrees with you, and virtually no one agrees with me, so I should just be quiet about it?

Maybe stop fighting me on the validity of my preference first.

 

[Gammadoodler]

My apologies, I misunderstood.

Sure, but I still believe they share a whole lot in common with the real world. In fact, the settings often rely on it. For example, do fantasy settings often have to explain:

• what gravity is or how it works?
• what matter is?
• what air or water or food is?
• what sentience is?
• what a human is?
• what an animal is?
• what the ground or the sky is?
• what a house, castle, or similar dwelling is?
• what a cave or cavern is?
• what a valley or mountain is?
• what stream, river, or ocean is?
• what a carriage or boat or ship is?
• what a cloud is?
• what a foot, hand, or head is?
• what grass, a shrub, or tree is?
• etc., etc.

Fantasy settings generally rely on our knowledge of the real world and how it operates and therefore do not need to explain all of these. The settings even assume we know these things so they can, at times, introduce new versions of these things and explain how the might be a little bit different.

That they share features with the real world is a convenience, not a feature of the genre.

It isn't necessarily a bad thing when it happens. But when it doesn't happen, you don't have good cause to get upset. You knew (or should have known) what you were getting into based on where you were in the bookstore when you bought it.

It'd be like picking up a comedy and wishing it could be more serious, and/or took more time to explain all the jokes.

 

[Minigiant]

That doesn't make him correct!

The X-gene is fiction and produces impossible results. Doing the impossible is the expectation of magic. It may not be defined as magic in the fiction, but it is indistinguishable outside the fiction.

Question: why is the word magic or magical so scary for you. Would you prefer a different word? Do you realize when people say it is magic / supernatural / extraordinary they are simply talking about phenomena that are impossible in RL. The word doesn't matter, it is simply a shortcut for: something that has no rational, scientific, or logical explanation, i.e. impossible.

The X-Gene is extraordinary.

Certain manifestation of Gamma and above mutants can tap into the supernatural or magical..

But the gene is extraordinary. That's why the suppression collars work. They all start as extraordinary and the collars suppress that.

In other words, the X-Gene is science. Super science. It still uses the realities laws.

 

[Gammadoodler]

The X-Gene is X-traordinary.

Sorry.. had to fix this.

 

[CreamCloud0]

So your argument is that virtually everyone in the community agrees with you, and virtually no one agrees with me, so I should just be quiet about it?

Maybe stop fighting me on the validity of my preference first.

your preference is your preference and i couldn't care less about what you want to run in your own games, my argument is that we cant ever seem to have a discussion about this kind of thing without you coming in to crowbar your need to have your own preferences validated before we can talk about anything relevant to the actual thread topic.

 

[Gammadoodler]

So your argument is that virtually everyone in the community agrees with you, and virtually no one agrees with me, so I should just be quiet about it?

Maybe stop fighting me on the validity of my preference first.

You prefer your games to have an adversarial relationship with the concept of fantasy (it's gotta be RW or give me the receipts).

For those of us who signed up to participate in the fantasy rather than audit it, this is gonna seem pretty contrarian.

your preference is your preference and i couldn't care less about what you want to run in your own games, my argument is that we cant ever seem to have a discussion about this kind of thing without you coming in to crowbar your need to have your own preferences validated before we can talk about anything relevant to the actual thread topic.

In fairness..in this particular topic (whether the fighter should be magical), @Micah Sweet 's posts are directly applicable.

 

[dave2008]

The X-Gene is extraordinary.

Certain manifestation of Gamma and above mutants can tap into the supernatural or magical..

But the gene is extraordinary. That's why the suppression collars work. They all start as extraordinary and the collars suppress that.

In other words, the X-Gene is science. Super science. It still uses the realities laws.

In my viewpoint it is pretty clearly fantasy, perhaps sci-fantasy, but fantasy. Using science to explain the X-gene is a red herring and always has been.

But it doesn't really matter. Enjoy your viewpoint and I will enjoy mine. This is supposed to fun, nothing to get to worked up over.

 

[Cadence]

That they share features with the real world is a convenience, not a feature of the genre.

It isn't necessarily a bad thing when it happens. But when it doesn't happen, you don't have good cause to get upset. You knew (or should have known) what you were getting into based on where you were in the bookstore when you bought it.

It'd be like picking up a comedy and wishing it could be more serious, and/or took more time to explain all the jokes.

I would posit if it wasn't true for the vast majority of thngs (basic nouns, math, much of science) that a fantasy or sci-fi story would literally be impossible to read. It feels like it is the exceptions to that sameness that makes it fantasy or sci-fi - and are why we seek out the genre.

 

[dave2008]

That they share features with the real world is a convenience, not a feature of the genre.

Yes, and...?

It isn't necessarily a bad thing when it happens.

What isn't a bad thing?

But when it doesn't happen, you don't have good cause to get upset.

I'm not upset. From my perspective everyone is upset that I want a little more sugar my tea. Why do care - it is my tea!

Really, why do you care that I would prefer a little more jargon / definition / clarity in my game rules. I mean why does it matter to you if I say a person lifting a 10 ton rock is a supernatural ability? I just don't understand why you care?

You knew (or should have known) what you were getting into based on where you were in the bookstore when you bought it.

What is your point?

I responded to this thread initially with a very minor and narrowly focused comment. This discussion has gone way beyond what I ever intended. I apologize if I somehow offended you, but that was not my intent.