D&D General What is the right amount of Classes for Dungeons and Dragons?

peeks in Hrm. Lets recap the Psion debate.

"We want a Psion class" (translation: we want new mechanics that aren't martial or spellcasting, and using "psionics" as the traditional word to represent this third option)
"But we already have psions." (translation: we have multiple classes that cover that class fantasy / trope)
"That's not a psion! You can't do that!" (translation: What?! That doesn't have new mechanics.)
"Umm... yes it is!" (translation: Its pretty clearly covering the psychic ability trope using familiar mechanics.)
"I want new mechanics!" (translation: actually, spot on)
"Ohhhh! But spell casters are already unbalanced, and you're asking for something that mimicks spellcasting without even the few checks on them?"
"My way isn't unbalanced!"
"Doubt."

And... I think that's it in a nutshell. Did I miss anything?
 

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peeks in Hrm. Lets recap the Psion debate.

"We want a Psion class" (translation: we want new mechanics that aren't martial or spellcasting, and using "psionics" as the traditional word to represent this third option)
"But we already have psions." (translation: we have multiple classes that cover that class fantasy / trope)
"That's not a psion! You can't do that!" (translation: What?! That doesn't have new mechanics.)
"Umm... yes it is!" (translation: Its pretty clearly covering the psychic ability trope using familiar mechanics.)
"I want new mechanics!" (translation: actually, spot on)
"Ohhhh! But spell casters are already unbalanced, and you're asking for something that mimicks spellcasting without even the few checks on them?"
"My way isn't unbalanced!"
"Doubt."

And... I think that's it in a nutshell. Did I miss anything?
the aberrant mind just sucks as the sorcerer sucks and I want something other than sorcerer?
we could consider ways to balance it?
 



If you're going for that many, make it a nice 69
someone ii GIF
 

"Sorry, you get one attempt to make a balanced psion class. Since the first try didn't work, that's clear proof that no psion can ever work and you're silly for wanting it."
why on earth possess people too think like that it seems pointless. do they hate the idea or would they rather the design team work on something else?
 

peeks in Hrm. Lets recap the Psion debate.

"We want a Psion class" (translation: we want new mechanics that aren't martial or spellcasting, and using "psionics" as the traditional word to represent this third option)
"But we already have psions." (translation: we have multiple classes that cover that class fantasy / trope)
"That's not a psion! You can't do that!" (translation: What?! That doesn't have new mechanics.)
"Umm... yes it is!" (translation: Its pretty clearly covering the psychic ability trope using familiar mechanics.)
"I want new mechanics!" (translation: actually, spot on)
"Ohhhh! But spell casters are already unbalanced, and you're asking for something that mimicks spellcasting without even the few checks on them?"
"My way isn't unbalanced!"
"Doubt."

And... I think that's it in a nutshell. Did I miss anything?
hmmm, possibly objections about how adding anything else (that isn't just more spells, we love spells, can't have enough spells no matter how overcomplicated or overpowered or redundant they are!) is unnecassary bloat as well as how it would be needlessly increasing complexity in a way that would be devistating for the game?
 

do they hate the idea or would they rather the design team work on something else?

Hate seems a strong word. I find every past expression of "psionic" fundamentally flawed and every expression of it post 1e AD&D strictly unnecessary. The only concept for psionic that every made sense was innate arcane knacks or gifts that did not depend on the level of the character and as such was not tied to class. Psionic as just another class never made sense at all and made even less sense after the introduction of the sorcerer which divided arcane into either "born with it" or "learned it by studying" already which made "psionic" (again, a horrible name) just another sort of arcane magician that was born with their magic. As such, I find the inclusion of the class absolutely pointless and likely a marker of bad overall design in the system, since a well-designed system would not require such a class.

And as such, I'd rather the design team work on something else, particularly since in my opinion there has never been a full and complete version of the game since like 1e AD&D which while complete was marred by lots of poor design. 3e improved the design, but instead of working to make a complete functional system worked really hard at selling books for short term profit at expense of the long-term health of the system, resulting ultimately in undermining its own design and making almost everyone unhappy but theoretical optimizers that treat chargen as the whole game.

There is no rational reason for wanting a psion that shouldn't be addressed by better design of the core magic system, and I don't count "but I want my psi points!" as a rational reason.

After a full, complete and well-designed system is available as the core game, I'd be happy to see alternative magic systems published but the degree of modularity implied by such a design would mean there would never be anything like the "psion" as people imagine it. Instead you'd just have a swappable way to play wizards with spell points instead of spell slots that would perfectly integrate with the entire rest of the system and there wouldn't be stupid arguments like, "But my magic goes through spell resistance because it's psionics and not magic!" Likewise, you'd have wizards that could cast "ego whip" or "body weaponry" in the base game.
 

the aberrant mind just sucks as the sorcerer sucks
This is in dispute. More accurately I'd have said that the pre-Tasha's sorcerers suck, but the Abberant Mind and Clockwork Soul and Lunar Sorcerer don't because they've fixed what made the sorcerer suck. And the 5.24 sorcerer doesn't look as if it's going to suck. We are on the second or third attempt at a balanced sorcerer class in 5e.
and I want something other than sorcerer?
You've an entire buffet of psychic options in D&D 5e:
  • Aberrant Mind Sorcerer
  • GOOlock (my first ever 5e character was a GOOlock Psion - and the 3.24 one looks pretty good)
  • Whispers Bard. Also Eloquence or Glamour
  • Soulknife Rogue
  • Psi Warrior Fighter
  • Astral Self Monk
You already have plenty of other psychic options. Aberrant Mind isn't my first choice for a psychic character. Depending on the character for me that would be either a 5.24 GOOlock or a Soulknife. Where they can do things - but the major thing about them isn't rationing power points and counting the number of spells.

But the Aberrant Mind hits just about all the mechanical beats that made the psion distinct from a wizard; it's a powerpoint class with fungible power points that doesn't use V, S, or M components when using its psychic spells, and can upcast. There are only a few major mechanical differences between an Aberrant Mind and a 2e or 3.5 Psion:
  • It doesn't get 70 pages worth of extruded spells paid for by the page and frequently called things like Levitation, Psionic. Instead it gets a psychic spin on existing spells without bothering to rename the spells.
  • It has a whiff of calamari - and most fictional psychics who are primary casters are explicitly creepy and outsiders
  • It calls itself a subclass not a class.
  • It is forced to use Charisma not intelligence. (I'd argue (a) psychics should default to charisma and (b) there should be more flexibility for a lot of classes in casting stat - when I'm not outright Death To Ability Scores).
why on earth possess people too think like that it seems pointless. do they hate the idea or would they rather the design team work on something else?
Yes. Yes I think the idea of the psion sucks like an industrial strength hoover and the implementations have sucked like Charybdis in every edition they have been in (even 4e but that was for different resasons). And I think that the design team has produced the best psionics D&D has ever had - and I would rather they worked on something else.

Now why, conceptually do I think the psion sucks as a representation of psychic characters? (As I believe I've made clear I am a fan of psionics - just not the psion).
  • Psychic characters are not D&D spellcasters. D&D spellcasters are all about throwing around a huge variety of spells. Psychics in fiction tend to just have a tiny handful of fundamental abilities that they have to build off.
  • Particularly for the "big" psionic characters (Prof X, Jean Grey, Carrie, Mewtoo, Emperor Palpatine) psychics have an otherness or creepiness about them, and psions from the design brief feel a lot more antiseptic than wizards. Tying them to the Far Realm adds that in - and as well as being a thematic match mechanically matches a significant portion of fiction including Warhammer 40k and Babylon 5.
  • Having one core psychic class sucks up all the air in the room and says that "Psionics work this way", leaving actually good implementations of various types of psychic (like the Soulknife or even the OneD&D GOOlock) looking odd.
And this is before we get into the implementation costs like 70 pages of spells.
 

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