D&D 5E Advanced D&D or "what to minimally fix in 5E?"

[Pauln6]

I have checked out Level Up and there is a lot to like. It's also possible to treat it as quite modular, so I am going to use expertise as a die roll, the basic combat manoeuvres, and some of the class features as alternates like in Tasha's. The armour rules are interesting but I worry they are too fiddly for our advanced age. I think my group is too long in the tooth to learn a full system that is similar but different.

Level up does have a couple of 3-step feat trees that double as prestige classes (arcane archer and shadow assassins spring to mind). That might be one relatively easy way to do higher level prestige classes, albeit as they stand, you are not obliged to take all three and with feats at a premium, it is a bit of an investment even if they give a lot of bang for their buck.

I was also toying with the notion of allowing extra attunement slots at higher levels maybe an extra common one and later an uncommon one. I'm not sure I would want to allow better than that, since freeing up lower slots means you take take extra improved items anyway. Not sure that there are many common items that require attunement mind you. Maybe it should be extra common at 5th, upgraded to uncommon at 10th, upgraded to rare at 15th plus an extra uncommon slot?

 

[CreamCloud0]

agree with the skill system elaboration, but one thing i'd like to specifically note on that is a section of overcoming magical obstacles through mundane skill checks, this includes your equipment and improving the value of tool proficiencies.

personally i think an elaboration of the weapons and armour system could also be a strong boon, masterwork weapons to overcome magic resistance, adding different materials or traits that add different properties, this would be a simpler solution to revamping weapon combat and would also help against the prevalence of magical resistance on monsters.

 

[Horwath]

agree with the skill system elaboration, but one thing i'd like to specifically note on that is a section of overcoming magical obstacles through mundane skill checks, this includes your equipment and improving the value of tool proficiencies.

Honestly, skills and tools should be primary ways to solve problems and magic should be just augment or short term imitation of those skills. And in very rare cases should magic be better than mundane skills. I.E. Fly/Spider climb spell.

Pass without trace should last longer and be only +5 bonus and possibly negating armor penalty on stealth. +10 is breaking everything. +10 is 13th level character with expertise.

personally i think an elaboration of the weapons and armour system could also be a strong boon, masterwork weapons to overcome magic resistance, adding different materials or traits that add different properties, this would be a simpler solution to revamping weapon combat and would also help against the prevalence of magical resistance on monsters.

I would maybe not bother with various masterwork properties, but instead anyone that has Expertise in required tools and at least 5th level can create +1 weapons, +2 at 11th level and +3 at 17th level. Cost and time of crafting TBD.



"normalized" Pass without trace:

2nd level spell
12hr duration, Concentration
60ft radius.

target ignores armor penalty on Stealth and leave no tracks unless they want to.
target gains proficiency in Stealth, if they already have it they gain expertise in stealth, if they already have expertise they have advantage on Stealth checks.

 

[GrimCo]

For advanced version, you first need basic one.

As is, 5e is on the crunchy and more complex side as far as ttrpgs go. Not PF2 level of crunch, but not that far off. Adding extra complexity without first making simple base game is contra productive imho.

Don't get me wrong, i think that it would be good thing if we had basic/advanced versions. Just that current 5e isn't good as "basic" version.

 

[CreamCloud0]

I would maybe not bother with various masterwork properties, but instead anyone that has Expertise in required tools and at least 5th level can create +1 weapons, +2 at 11th level and +3 at 17th level. Cost and time of crafting TBD.

it's not just about bypassing the resistance, it's about customisation with additional properties, especially in the areas that combat lacks for martial players 'i move, i swing my sword, i end my turn', battleaxe's with thrown, a finesse halberd, being able to raise your AC with a parrying shortsword.

it'd also be a very nice gold sink for the players, even for most casters if you do it right, mage armour is fine but if you can buy a set of leather armour that lets you use the Evasion ability that's a whole lot more attractive to those squishies.

edit: and making energy damage weapons far easier to aquire, (how did i forget to mention these) dealing energy damage is way too exclusive to magic characters, all martials should end up tricked out each with their own collection of maybe an ice longsword, an acid longbow, a thunder warhammer and a psychic quarterstaff that they bought before the game is over, ready for every monster weakness/resistance situation.

 

[Corinnguard]

As is, 5e is on the crunchy and more complex side as far as ttrpgs go.

5e definitely isn't as crunchy or complex as PF2 or 3e IMO. However, it could use some complexity in a couple of areas.

 

[GrimCo]

5e definitely isn't as crunchy or complex as PF2 or 3e IMO. However, it could use some complexity in a couple of areas.

No, but it's more crunchy than 2ed advanced d&d. In general, as far as ttrpgs, d&d 5e is on the crunchy side. And i would argue that, going by PHB only, 3e isn't more crunchy or complex than 5e, as far as character creation and options are concerned.

 

[Corinnguard]

Switching To Level Up: Advanced 5e from D&D 5e Another informative source for those who want to level up.

 

[mellored]

Are you talking about a third party product to enhance 5e, or 5e 2024? If the later, that ship has sailed and these are not the kinds of fundamental changes that will be happening. If the former, OK I am listening.

To be fair, 5.24 has done a lot of what he is asking.

More customization with a first level feat and flexible ability scores. Halfing barbarian with a great axe is now a thing.
More reason to go to higher levels for martials.
Weapon choices actually matter. (Though Armor still doesn't).
Revamp magic items pricing via the Bastion system.

It might not go as far as he wants. But it's in the same direction, and isn't a new game.

 

[CapnZapp]

Are you talking about a third party product to enhance 5e, or 5e 2024? If the later, that ship has sailed and these are not the kinds of fundamental changes that will be happening. If the former, OK I am listening.

I'm giving you my vision of what a 3PP product should look like.

Specifically note the difference to [insert hopeful 5E killer/replacement here]. There's been soo many games that profess to fix or enhance 5E that turns out to not do that, because they're completely new games, that no longer feel like 5E.