DC20 Kickstarter launch on June 4th

[overgeeked]

The Kickstarter is closing in on $500,000.

D&DTube was almost wall-to-wall DC20 videos today. That's wild.

 

[overgeeked]

And then he presents every little idea he has as if he was a high octane young Billy Mays selling you the most brilliant product ever on an infomercial at 3 am.

Yeah. I've tried to watch a few of his videos but his presentation style was really off putting. Clearly he connects with a large enough audience. But I'm not in it.

 

[AK81]

I'm not a hundred percent clear on what a d20 Fantasy Heartbreaker is, but I think it means a game that tries to dethrone DnD. Obviously, that will never happen.

I have heard the Dungeon Coach dream about his game becoming the same size and importance as Pathfinder, which I think is a tall dream indeed.

But I don't think it needs to be a heartbreaker to be important. If it becomes a great game that is fun to play, then that will be enough for the people playing it. Obviously, it would be better for the game if it does well, because then it will get more content. And I hope it succeeds, more good games are good for the hobby

 

[overgeeked]

I'm not a hundred percent clear on what a d20 Fantasy Heartbreaker is, but I think it means a game that tries to dethrone DnD. Obviously, that will never happen.

No. A fantasy heartbreaker is when someone who plays D&D decides they don't like enough about the current edition of D&D and makes their own D&D. Clearly he has the audience to pull off the Kickstarter funding. But every other D&D referee tries to make a fantasy heartbreaker at some point.

I have heard the Dungeon Coach dream about his game becoming the same size and importance as Pathfinder, which I think is a tall dream indeed.

That's one source of the "heartbreaker" part. Wishing and dreaming. Maybe he should finish designing the game before hoping (out loud) that it'll be on par, audience-wise, with a game designed by a team of people who mostly have more years of design experience than DC has years on the planet.

But I don't think it needs to be a heartbreaker to be important. If it becomes a great game that is fun to play, then that will be enough for the people playing it. Obviously, it would be better for the game if it does well, because then it will get more content. And I hope it succeeds, more good games are good for the hobby

Yeah, it already made funding. It did so almost instantly. But that's the point of intentionally low-balling your funding benchmark. Whether it's played or not is another question. Played long term is another. Whether it lasts or is another drop in the bucket with all the other not-D&D but totally D&D games flooding the market.

Black Flag...or whatever they're calling it now. Daggerheart. A5E. MCDM RPG. C7d20. Pathfinder.

Of those, the design space DC20 seems to want to push into is already covered by Black Flag, A5E, and Pathfinder 2E. It will also be covered by MCDM RPG.

Daggerheart is going lighter with more dramatic focus compared to heavier and (mostly) more tactical focus of all of those listed in the last sentence.

That leaves C7d20, or whatever they're calling it, as the only other one that might go lighter.

 

[Aldarc]

I'm not a hundred percent clear on what a d20 Fantasy Heartbreaker is, but I think it means a game that tries to dethrone DnD. Obviously, that will never happen.

TVTropes actually has a good distillation as "a game that is Dungeons & Dragons, But Not," though often with a desire to "fix" D&D.

A very common form of failed roleplaying game is known as the "fantasy heartbreaker." In its most basic form, the fantasy heartbreaker is a game that is Dungeons and Dragons, But Not. While forgivable in games in the formative years of tabletop gaming, even now there are always new fantasy games coming out that are slavishly loyal to Advanced Dungeons & Dragons' idea of adventuring. Usually, however, they will also pick one system that needed "fixing" — Character Alignment, Hit Points and weapon balance are common culprits — and replace it with something even more complicated. Imagine a Doom clone being made nowadays — as in 'literally' trying to clone Doom, ignoring everything that came after, including full 3D, mouselook, and enemies smarter than suicidal fireball-flinging lemmings, simply because that's all the author has played and assumed nothing else has changed much since then. Except they also decide that Hit Points are unrealistic, so they bolt on a complicated first-aid system. That's what a fantasy heartbreaker looks like. The primary methods of combating these are through research and being up on your game design.

Generally, these are often games designed by people with little exposure to games other than D&D. His only other TTRPG exposure seems to be to PF2, which is essentially D&D.

It's a "heartbreaker" because the consumer sees the good ideas but after seeing the rest of the game, their heart breaks. I think that in my case, there are some good, if not great, ideas in this game, but it feels as if they are being used to just recreate a game that mostly already exists with basically all the same classes, skills, races, spells, etc. instead of trying to make a new game from the ground up with other classes, skills, races, spells, etc. Like, you have this golden opportunity to make a new game with a new system, but your ideas can't seem to imagine a game without a cleric, bard, sorcerer, warlock, wizard, or whatever else, which were there mostly because of the brand's legacy issues? That feels like wasted potential.

I have heard the Dungeon Coach dream about his game becoming the same size and importance as Pathfinder, which I think is a tall dream indeed.

I think that he may underestimate why Paizo was able to succeed with Pathfinder. It starts with a staff of people under the leadership of one of the biggest names of the TTRPG industry (Lisa Stevens!) writing for Dungeon and Dragon magazines and having a massive mailing list.

 

[MichaelSomething]

The Kickstarter is closing in on $500,000.

D&DTube was almost wall-to-wall DC20 videos today. That's wild.

The Heartbreakers of old also didn't have Youtube where you could build an audience (and develop a style), Kickstarter to generate funds and hype, and a market leader with a conservative publishing and design strategy. The situation has changed. While you won't be dethroning WOTC anytime soon, you can build a nice niche for yourself...

 

[Meech17]

I'm surprised it's as big as it is.. I wasn't expecting half a million, and it still has weeks to go...

I always assumed heartbreakers were called as much because your heart broke for the creator, rather than the game itself. I've heard stories of just normal dudes at cons, with stacks of books and games they made, and usually invested too much money into, but didn't go anywhere. So now you know they're just saddled with loads of debt and a garage full of RPG books they'll never sell.

 

[Retreater]

I think this has reached critical mass. It has beat the entire funding period for 13th Age 2e in its first 24 hours. Everybody's talking about it. Will probably end up bigger than MCDM RPG. Maybe bigger than Daggerheart.
Didn't see this coming.

 

[Meech17]

I haven't gotten a chance to watch any of the D&D tubers talk about it, but I saw that a lot of them are.. Has anyone watched some? Are they paid sponsor spots or are they just people genuinely stoked on this new system?

 

[Shardstone]

I'm surprised it's as big as it is.. I wasn't expecting half a million, and it still has weeks to go...

I always assumed heartbreakers were called as much because your heart broke for the creator, rather than the game itself. I've heard stories of just normal dudes at cons, with stacks of books and games they made, and usually invested too much money into, but didn't go anywhere. So now you know they're just saddled with loads of debt and a garage full of RPG books they'll never sell.

Haha Im in this post...