D&D General What is the right amount of Classes for Dungeons and Dragons?

[Mind of tempest]

Not hyperbole.

It's like the Druid Wildshape problem.

There are 2 groups who want 2 opposing things.
There is absolutely no way to please both groups with one thing without cracking a golden egg or sacred cow somewhere else.

Except with Fighter, it's like 7 groups because we arbitrarily put them together into one big class.

wild shape problem?

That works too if you don't want new base classes.

given most barbarians are described as meat head characters and past adding magic to rage I have seen little improvement to the barbarian making it the noob martial or turn your brain off class is not inherently a bad idea

 

[Minigiant]

If you aren't going to be satisfied with what nobodies have created for you, then you aren't going to get the class. WotC has given no indication that it is going to completely toss out its position of the last 10 years and suddenly churn out classes for us. One class in 10 years and they made sure it was something different, not simply a more complex version of a class we already have.

We know we won't get the class from WOTC.

The issue is getting the class from someone else the DM allows.

Paizo, Pelgrane, Darrington, MCDM and other well known full RPG publishers don't have simple and complex warrior classes in their RPGs. Or a simple Arcanist or Healer class. Or a Shifter class. A few are attempting psionic and warlordy classes.

 

[Maxperson]

That works too if you don't want new base classes.

The problem is that nothing changes if you switch the simple class to Barbarian. You just upset a new batch of people for making their favorite class the simple one. These are truths.

1. There is a need for a simple martial and simple caster.
2. The fighter is the current simple martial.
3. No matter what class is the simple one, people are going to be upset and want it changed.

Given those truths, I think it's better to just keep the current group of folks upset rather than upset a whole new batch.

 

[Maxperson]

We know we won't get the class from WOTC.

The issue is getting the class from someone else the DM allows.

Paizo, Pelgrane, Darrington, MCDM and other well known full RPG publishers don't have simple and complex warrior classes in their RPGs. Or a simple Arcanist or Healer class. Or a Shifter class. A few are attempting psionic and warlordy classes.

I hope you get what you want. I sincerely do. Have you sent emails to those places asking for them to make those classes?

 

[Vaalingrade]

The Dashing Swordsman doesn't seem complex to me. Just give a fighter a decent charisma and proficiency with persuasion and you are there.

I'd also like the Dashing Swordsman to do dashing things, not just have persuasion.

Champion would be good for the swordsman part.

The Champion isn't good for anything. Not even being a Champion thanks to Bounded Accuracy and a poor designer understanding of the capabilities of the human meat suit.

Or if you really want to play up the dashing portion, the Purple Dragon Knight ability would be fantastic for that.

'The' 'Ability' singular. Why not have a whole class that does the job instead of a piece of one?

Again, who is actually being served by denying people their class fantasies in favor of 'simple' and' smaller numbers'?

 

[Minigiant]

wild shape problem?

Special Templates vs Monsters Stat Blocks

Some people want wild shape to have their own special templates so do it players aren't looking through every beast within a CR rating every time they transform or choose forms. Some people want Druid to wildshape using actual stat blocks in order to utilize the various aspects of every individual beast.

The two ideas cannot be reconciled without upsetting one side or on the other.

 

[Minigiant]

I hope you get what you want. I sincerely do. Have you sent emails to those places asking for them to make those classes?

If I have to tell them, they likely wont do a good job due to lack of passion or inspiration.

 

[Maxperson]

I'd also like the Dashing Swordsman to do dashing things, not just have persuasion.

The Champion isn't good for anything. Not even being a Champion thanks to Bounded Accuracy and a poor designer understanding of the capabilities of the human meat suit.


'The' 'Ability' singular. Why not have a whole class that does the job instead of a piece of one?

Again, who is actually being served by denying people their class fantasies in favor of 'simple' and' smaller numbers'?

It's not enough for a class. There are a thousand concepts just as minor that don't have classes. Why should yours get a class and those don't? The Dashing Swordsman would be good for a subclass, though. It could have 5 abilities that all relate to being dashing and swordsmaning.

 

[Maxperson]

If I have to tell them, they likely wont do a good job due to lack of passion or inspiration.

That's simply not true. They may not realize the desire or need for such a thing and your request(and the requests of others) could inspire them to make it. Plus, they have reputations to protect and putting out crap isn't going to do that.

 

[Vaalingrade]

It's not enough for a class. There are a thousand concepts just as minor that don't have classes. Why should yours get a class and those don't?

You're missing the entire point I've been supporting the whole thread and focusing on a concept I plucked out of the aether at random to make my point that Fighter classes can't just be dumped into barbarian and paladin to grant complexity.

So here is is bold as brass and also bold in font: They All Deserve Classes.