Why is the Gish so popular with players?

[Blue Orange]

Of the Holy Trinity, there's a pure tank (fighter), pure healer (cleric), and pure DPS (wizard), back to 0e/little brown books. There's a tank/healer (paladin), a healer/DPS (druid), but no tank/DPS.

BECMI had the elf character class. There's warlocks now...kind of...and they're one of the more popular classes.

And as others have said it's sort of a fusion of the two most popular fantasy archetypes, warrior and wizard, back at least as far as Elric.

As for 'gish'...it's one syllable and four letter, so it's fast to say or type. So I'm not surprised it caught on even with people who knew nothing about 1-2e D&D.

 

[dbm]

It says something when my spellchecker knows the word gish…

 

[Incenjucar]

D&D set the precedent that a martial character has to use magic to keep up thanks to Math Magic Items of Plussening and Non-Plussed Resistance. You are not pulling your weight without magic after mid-tier at latest.

A gish is a way to be martial character who doesn't have to beg for an external magic source to do their job; they at least hypothetically can enchant their own equipment, even if in practice they usually get it the same way a fighter does.

 

[TiQuinn]

D&D set the precedent that a martial character has to use magic to keep up thanks to Math Magic Items of Plussening and Non-Plussed Resistance. You are not pulling your weight without magic after mid-tier at latest.

A gish is a way to be martial character who doesn't have to beg for an external magic source to do their job; they at least hypothetically can enchant their own equipment, even if in practice they usually get it the same way a fighter does.

Excellent point. In early D&D in particular, you could roll up two fighters and have little difference outside of choice of weapon until magic items came into play - then differences emerged. Multi-classing with wizard or cleric is just cutting to the chase.

 

[billd91]

This.

Also, can we just throw the most obvious reason out there? Because it’s an friggin option in the PHB going back to 1e! Like, why wouldn’t you want to try this if it’s an option?! Why would someone get all judgy about it?

Earlier. The F/MU has basically been around since the elf was able to advance in both classes and use their abilities in the same adventure - so, since Holmes Basic at least.

And let's get real, for a lot of people, RPGs in general are a power fantasy, enabling us to do things in play we can't do in real life. No sense in singling out the fighter/wizards for special judgment.

 

[Scribe]

Magus – d20PFSRD

www.d20pfsrd.com

 

[Argyle King]

Quick thoughts:

••Not all rpgs have classes
••Powers and abilities aren't personality; while skill with a blade or magic might be defining features of a character, they aren't the whole of the character. I think more people are doing gishes now because players want to have competent characters, and very few contemporary rpgs have drawbacks (or risk/reward) associated with magic or seeks to make the non-magic hero viable across all tiers of play.
••In a world where magic and the supernatural are real and tangible things, a skilled warrior would likely put at least some basic effort into understanding how to use those things (especially if we're talking D&D-style worlds with magic around every corner).
••More influence from media in which heroes need flashy powers to be heroes (anime, style-over-substance Marvel movies, etc) enforces a particular view of what heroes look like.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Ok so it sounds like you're saying he was primarily a spellcaster in the books? Because he wasn't.

Elric is clearly skilled in combat, and engages in sword fights all the time. But it is expressly stated that without magical augmentation from potions or Stormbringer, Elric was not an effective melee combatant for any length of time. His skills were betrayed by his frailty and lack of stamina, which lagged behind that of mundane warriors.

OTOH, there are magics- some quite powerful- he can do that virtually no one else in his world can do, some by virtue of his skill & knowledge, some by his ancestry and pacts.

And I’m not trivializing Stormbringer. It- and its cousins and analogues across time and space- are clearly artifact level items (at least) in D&D terms, if not outright demigods/lesser gods playing games for their amusement. It’s not a “magic sword”, it’s The One Ring with pointy edges.

 

[Blue]

And then the Ranger uses spells!

Same for the Battle Cleric or the Paladin or the Sword Bard too...

You missed the whole point of what I said, didn't you.

 

[Undrave]

You missed the whole point of what I said, didn't you.

Frankly, I don't remember. I think my point is "People say the Gish fans just want an OP character but nobody say anything when the Ranger saunters on the scene and that guy mixes weapon with Magic".