D&D General Lowest level of magic that still "feels like D&D"

[Maxperson]

it’s not that they do not feel like D&D, it’s that they are not needed for the game to still feel like D&D

For me some level of magic is, though. Whether it's magic is weak and common with 1st level only, to magic is powerful, but rare with 9th level spells and only 3 wizards in the entire world, I need some level of magic to feel like D&D. And there's no level of magic that doesn't feel like D&D to me.

 

[Distracted DM]

Agreed, but for a slightly different reason: unlimited cantrips means that the spells can go a flyin' as soon as the new PCs hit the Tavern. Nothing says D&D to me like out-of-control fantasy.

Depends on the edition. TSR-era D&D, no limit. WotC-era D&D, 3rd or 4th level tops. But infinite cantrips already spoil things.

And here we have the fascinating divide between D&D's sword and sorcery inspirations, and the higher-fantasy desires that others have.

 

[ezo]

So higher-level magic is fine in TSR-era D&D because there’s effectively zero chance of ever seeing it in play.

One of the most interesting things about D&D (any eidtion) is how different experiences are. Most of the campaigns I played in for AD&D reach 12-16th levels A couple times above 20th. For BECMI, we made it to Immortals twice.

Granted, back then it was middle school, high school and college. We has tons of free time to play regularly, for several hours at a time, so we accomplished a lot IME and games would run 5+ years in real life.

Of couse, all the restrictions you listed made a big difference in the feel of magic compared to that in 5E. I completely know what you mean about "play long enough and it is inevitable".

I really wish I could get rid of unlimited cantrips.

LOL you can, of course! No game has to use them. We've run the gambit from no combat cantrips, to combat "slots" for cantrips, to a cantrip "recharge" feature. All of those have more appeal to me than simple pew pew pew every round. It is even more boring than a fighter attack attack attack each round--because I expect magical to be magical!

 

[mamba]

For me some level of magic is, though.

and the question was what level that is… most seem to feel 3rd level spells

 

[Maxperson]

and the question was what level that is… most seem to feel 3rd level spells

For me it's just magic is present. I don't need it to be 3rd level spells. I'll say this, though, if the DM is going to limit magic power, he needs to do an amazing job elsewhere to make up for the lack. The lower the max level spell, the better and harder his job is.

 

[overgeeked]

And here we have the fascinating divide between D&D's sword and sorcery inspirations, and the higher-fantasy desires that others have.

Yep. What’s weird is I love 4E and I’m perfectly fine with at-wills in that context because it’s a game first, whatever else second. But other editions of D&D try to be world sims or whatever first, and at-will cantrips spoil the feel.

 

[ezo]

and the question was what level that is… most seem to feel 3rd level spells

Too bad this wasn't a poll instead. But I think that has already been done IIRC.

 

[Micah Sweet]

One of the most interesting things about D&D (any eidtion) is how different experiences are. Most of the campaigns I played in for AD&D reach 12-16th levels A couple times above 20th. For BECMI, we made it to Immortals twice.

Granted, back then it was middle school, high school and college. We has tons of free time to play regularly, for several hours at a time, so we accomplished a lot IME and games would run 5+ years in real life.

Of couse, all the restrictions you listed made a big difference in the feel of magic compared to that in 5E. I completely know what you mean about "play long enough and it is inevitable".


LOL you can, of course! No game has to use them. We've run the gambit from no combat cantrips, to combat "slots" for cantrips, to a cantrip "recharge" feature. All of those have more appeal to me than simple pew pew pew every round. It is even more boring than a fighter attack attack attack each round--because I expect magical to be magical!

You can, if you can get your players on board with a rules change which is hard to see as anything other than a nerf to all spellcastibg PCs. Often a hard sell, surprisingly.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Yep. What’s weird is I love 4E and I’m perfectly fine with at-wills in that context because it’s a game first, whatever else second. But other editions of D&D try to be world sims or whatever first, and at-will cantrips spoil the feel.

Exactly. For me, D&D will always be a world sim (I quit 4e because it was clearly designed not to be).

 

[jaycrockett]

Zero magic. A party of rogues raiding a dungeon still feels like D&D to me.