D&D General The thread where I review a ton of Ravenloft modules

[Bedrockgames]

You can certainly argue for the former but expect a lot of disgruntled players as a result.

Keep in mind part of the reason this came up is the argument was being made that this is how people felt about the line at the time it was made, and I was saying for its time, it wasn't that unusual to have many of these elements, in fact it was often desired and expected

 

[TiQuinn]

But I do think you can easily run Ravenloft using say the black box or DoD, supplemented with the Van Richter Guidebooks and not have any issues. It is quite a good setting and beloved for a reason (we wouldn't have gotten VGTR if it hadn't been).

I agree, but I think you need to apply that setting and the material in the box sets to a more modern sensibility and use Curse of Strahd as an example of what to do versus something like Hour of the Knife (what not to do.) I know you said discussing the modules isn’t helpful but I believe it is - it’s how DMs learn to model adventures. They need to know those old adventures need lots of work.

Keep in mind part of the reason this came up is the argument was being made that this is how people felt about the line at the time it was made, and I was saying for its time, it wasn't that unusual to have many of these elements, in fact it was often desired and expected

I remember that time well and I remember that at the time, it wasn’t unusual but only because that’s what TSR kept doing over and over - not because players wanted or expected that. Ravenloft got the same collective groans from my playing group in the 90s that James Gasik mentioned above. It was not universally loved. Lots of people had problems with it even then.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I agree, but I think you need to apply that setting and the material in the box sets to a more modern sensibility and use Curse of Strahd as an example of what to do versus something like Hour of the Knife (what not to do.) I know you said discussing the modules isn’t helpful but I believe it is - it’s how DMs learn to model adventures. They need to know those old adventures need lots of work.

I agree GMs often learn from modules. CoS looked quite good to me (I haven't played it so I can't comment) and Hour of the Knife I haven't played in ages so I can't really comment on it. And I agree older modules require more work. But that was pretty expected at the time

I remember that time well and I remember that at the time, it wasn’t unusual but only because that’s what TSR kept doing over and over - not because players wanted or expected that. Ravenloft got the same collective groans from my playing group in the 90s that James Gasik mentioned above. It was not universally loved. Lots of people had problems with it even then.

I would disagree here. I think a lot of people remember the past the wya they want to. I would love to remember the 90s being a time when I was ahead of the curve and wanted nothing but open sandbox adventures that leaned heavily into player agency. But that really wasn't the case. I wanted linear adventures. I wanted story. I pretty much wanted what TSR was putting out, and most of the people I gamed with had the same sensibilities. Not saying you didn't have different sensibilities or that maybe people in your circles also didn't have them, but I have a very different impression of the gaming culture at this time.

In terms of the groan, again this is hard to anyone to quantify, but I think people are overstating that. Maybe that is how you reacted, or people you knew reacted, it wasn't what I encounter most of the time during its 90s run (and most of the people I gamed with from that time have fond memories of 90s Ravenloft). Were there peopel who hated it? Of course. Just like there are people who hated Dragonlance or Planescape (personally I couldn't stand Planescape). But that often came down to personal preference

What I am reacting against here is not people saying "I didn't like it" or "my group didn't like it" but just kind of asserting a history of it being this deeply disliked line because of reasons cited. I just don't think that is true

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Curse of Strahd

As I said earlier, CoS is as much a source of bad experiences as those 2nd edition adventures. Maybe that was a holdover of 2nd edition sensibilities, but I think it’s down to it not having much plot to speak of, and zero scares.

 

[TiQuinn]

What I am reacting against here is not people saying "I didn't like it" or "my group didn't like it" but just kind of asserting a history of it being this deeply disliked line because of reasons cited. I just don't think that is true

On the contrary, because of the strength of the first, original adventure, it’s one of the most loved lines because WotC always knows that a return to it will make them money. While not everyone will love what they do with it, from the standpoint of getting support and attention, Ravenloft is doing a lot better than Greyhawk, Dragonlance, and Dark Sun.

 

[TiQuinn]

As I said earlier, CoS is as much a source of bad experiences as those 2nd edition adventures. Maybe that was a holdover of 2nd edition sensibilities, but I think it’s down to it not having much plot to speak of, and zero scares.

I think whether it has scares or not is relative. I think CoS is an advanced campaign, i.e. I wouldn’t expect a novice DM to run it. It’s not an easy campaign to run, but it’s very rewarding in the hands of someone experienced.

 

[Bedrockgames]

On the contrary, because of the strength of the first, original adventure, it’s one of the most loved lines because WotC always knows that a return to it will make them money. While not everyone will love what they do with it, from the standpoint of getting support and attention, Ravenloft is doing a lot better than Greyhawk, Dragonlance, and Dark Sun.

I would not dispute the original modules popularity. But I disagree and think that wasn't the only thing driving the popularity of the line since. It isn't just a well liked module, the setting itself has a lot of fans.. Yes the original module was popular but the 90s Ravenloft line was also very popular. Popular enough that it continued to have a fanbase into 3E in the Sword and Sorcery books and on the Fraternity of Shadows Website.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Also just occurring to me, maybe we should start another thread on this topic if we want to continue it. This may be derailing the OPs reviews

 

[TiQuinn]

Also just occurring to me, maybe we should start another thread on this topic if we want to continue it. This may be derailing the OPs reviews

lol, probably a good idea.

 

[Bedrockgames]

lol, probably a good idea.

Posted. Went with something more open so a wide variety of Ravenloft related discussions can occur