D&D (2024) The 2014 vs 2024 PHB Compatibility Thread

[mellored]

They've been alternating between 2 definitions of backwards compatibility. Initially it was "use 2014 PCs alongside 2024 PCs no problem", then that was amended to what @JEB shared ("use 2014 adventures for 2024 PCs"). And now per the recent videos they're back to "use 2014 PCs alongside 2024 PCs no problem."

Both are true.

You can use 2014 PCs and 2014 adventures with 2024.

there's a significant power up happening between 2014 and 2024 characters. A good example is a 2024 fighter gets a bonus feat from background, weapon masteries, and their champion subclass is objectively superior to the 2014 champion.

Some of what you got in a race is now move to your background. Doesn't make it more powerful.

And the classes where rebalanced. Weak ones (Champion, Beastmaster, elemental monk), got buffed, sure.

But also the powerful ones (paladin, moon druid) got nerfed.

IMO the bigger thing is that all classes got higher ratings in the playtest that on previous surveys. So chances are that you will also like the majority of changes as well. Maybe not every change for every character, but most of them.

 

[mellored]

One of the craziest things I have heard is that Artificers have seem to have lost access to Cure Wounds.

It would be weird if Cure Wounds said it was an Artificer spell when there is no Artificer in the book. Same goes for any other spell.

So until we see an updated Artificer list, it's still on it.

Though the idea of them getting a mechanically themed heal sounds fun.

 

[Quickleaf]

Both are true.

You can use 2014 PCs and 2014 adventures with 2024.

Some of what you got in a race is now move to your background. Doesn't make it more powerful.

And the classes where rebalanced. Weak ones Champion, Beastmaster, elemental monk), got buffed, sure.

But also the powerful ones (paladin, moon druid) got nerfed.

IMO the bigger thing is that all classes got higher ratings in the playtest that on previous surveys. So chances are that you will also like the majority of changes as well. Maybe not every change for every character, but most of them.

I mean, I'm pretty sure a 2014 Battlemaster Fighter wielding a greataxe can't make an extra attack via the Cleave weapon mastery and pile on another Superiority Die onto that attack. An extra 1d12+1d8 damage at 3rd level sounds to me like a power-up. An extra feat at 1st level sounds like a power-up too. I don't know what else to call it.

 

[Quickleaf]

Sounds to me like they've been saying that you can use 2014 PC's alongside 2024 PC's AND you can use your 2014 adventures with 2024 characters, the whole time.

Not sure how these are mutually exclusive?

Maybe that was the intent. The messaging I observed distinctly swung between those two.

They're absolutely not mutually exclusive, but they are distinctly different:

An adventure has a level range and is lot more "rough" in terms of what power levels work for it. So even if 2024 PCs are powered-up, the change isn't disruptive when compared to the level ranges of the adventures.

Whereas comparing PC-to-PC is a more precise bandwidth of power (not precise objectively, just more precise than adventures), where you quickly notice power differences when those two PCs are alongside each other.

 

[grimmgoose]

I'm sure right now the answer is, "yes of course!", but just wait about a year after release and then it'll be, "well actually, no."

 

[mellored]

I mean, I'm pretty sure a 2014 Battlemaster Fighter wielding a greataxe can't make an extra attack via the Cleave weapon mastery and pile on another Superiority Die onto that attack. An extra 1d12+1d8 damage at 3rd level sounds to me like a power-up. An extra feat at 1st level sounds like a power-up too. I don't know what else to call it.

2014 can use Precision and Great Weapon master to land attacks with +10 damage.

2024 gets 1d12+1d8 = +11 damage, but only if 2 enemies are adjacent. And that's spreading damage out instead of focus fire.

So maybe a little more powerful at level 3, but less at level 4.

 

[Wolfpack48]

Someone help me out. Do we take this to mean that all subclasses printed before the new 2024 Players Handbook will not be compatible with 2024 PHB characters? That is certainly different from what we heard at the summit last year and I believe what we’ve heard in previous videos that said you could use them with some modifications like ensuring they begin at 3rd level.

I think the word is that 2014 subclasses not present in the 2024 rules could be still used but may need some tweaking. I guess I am wondering how much tweaking, and who will do it.

On the other hand, if a 2014 subclass was rewritten for 2024, the rewritten subclass should be used.

What about spells and magic items from older books or sources? What about magic items? Monsters? Backgrounds?

Believe I heard that these could be used without any problems.

I’m not worried about mixing in stuff from the 2014 PHB so much but there are hundreds of 5e supplements out there with material I’d still like to use with 2024 D&D. I get that it wouldn’t always be a perfect fit and might take some tweaking but stating that it just won’t work is a problem.

I believe they also said all old adventures and supplements will work fine with 2024, possibly with the exception of things in Tasha's that were incorporated directly into the 2024 rules.

 

[Parmandur]

Whereas comparing PC-to-PC is a more precise bandwidth of power (not precise objectively, just more precise than adventures), where you quickly notice power differences when those two PCs are alongside each other.

In theory, sure. In practice, plenty of people during the playtests reported mixing old and new Characters at the same table without issues.

 

[SteveC]

There was a ton of discussion about this, and at the time, we heard over and over that the books would be compatible. As I suspected, this isn't really going to be true, and the expectation is that you'll adopt the new classes. And it makes sense because we're going from the perspective of "please keep buying the 2014 PHB" to "please buy the 2024 PHB."

There isn't anything wrong with that attitude, of course, because WotC wants everyone to adopt the new material. That completely makes financial sense. What I find cynically amusing is all the people who argued so vehemently that of course the old books and classes would be compatible and you could keep using them.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Someone help me out. Do we take this to mean that all subclasses printed before the new 2024 Players Handbook will not be compatible with 2024 PHB characters? That is certainly different from what we heard at the summit last year and I believe what we’ve heard in previous videos that said you could use them with some modifications like ensuring they begin at 3rd level.

That would suck, frankly. There are hundreds, maybe thousands, of subclasses made instantly incompatible.

What about spells and magic items from older books or sources? What about magic items? Monsters? Backgrounds?

I’m not worried about mixing in stuff from the 2014 PHB so much but there are hundreds of 5e supplements out there with material I’d still like to use with 2024 D&D. I get that it wouldn’t always be a perfect fit and might take some tweaking but stating that it just won’t work is a problem.

A big reason why I'm not bothering with 5.5. I have far too much 3pp I enjoy that would be messed with in the new order.

Sayonara, WotC.