D&D (2024) 2024 Player's Handbook Reveal #2: "New Fighter"

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"The Fighter is now the weapon master equivalent of the Wizard" (with respect to versatility).

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OVERVIEW

The Fighter seems to have been mostly set in Playtest 7. Most of the features described carry over from there, though Brawler has gone and is replaced by Psi Warrior form Tasha's.

• Ranger and Fighter have the most new features.
• Subclasses provide "different levels of mechanical idiosyncracy".
• Weapon mastery (level1), tactical mind (2), tactical shift (5), studied attacks (13) -- all of these are as in PT7.
• second wind -- increased number of uses (as PT7)
• NEW: Level 9: Tactical master is like mastery of Armaments, but limited to push. sap, and slow. These properties are now always in the fighter's pocket, regardless of the weapon used. These properties add to Battle Master abilities.
• Fighting Styles: new options available: Blindfighting, Interception, Thrown Weapons, and Unarmed fighting (from Tasha's). (YAY for thrown weapons and unarmed fighting!). Protection style "improved".
• NEW: You can change your fighting style when you level up.
• NEW: All classes now get an Epic Boon at level 19, replacing the ASI.

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SUBCLASSES

Battle Master:

• they considered making the maneuvers the core of the fighter, but that would undermine the goal of different playstyles for each subclass.
• ambush, bait and switch, commanding presence, and tactical presence all brought over from Tasha's (as PT7)
• Student of War also gives you a skill proficiency (as PT7)
• Know your enemy has "limited number of uses per day" (PT7 had one, IIRC)

Champion:

• same core identity, focusing on crits.
• Remarkable Athlete: NEW. When you score a crit, you can move without receiving opportunity attacks.
• Remarkable Athlete: advantage on initiative and athletics (as PT7). This works with the new surprise rules, which give you an edge but "defang" the one-sidedness of surprise.
• Additional fighting style at 7, Heroic Warrior at 10, Survivor at 18 (as PT7).

Eldritch Knight:

• for players who played OD&D when Elf was a class...
• with the Psi Warrior are for people who want Fighter and X (mixed).
• no school restrictions (also for Arcane Trickster)
• NEW: you can now use an arcane focus.
• War Magic and Improved War Magic: as in PT7, but at level 18 you can replace two attacks with spells up to level 2 (I think this is new).

Psi Warrior:

• changes from Tasha: changes are primarily in rewording.

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NEW RULES
Epic Boon:

• you may choose a non-epic boon feat. They include an ASI that can go past 20, and include abilities go beyond what feats normally do.
• Example: Boon of Combat Prowess. Once per TURN, you can turn a miss to a hit. Another example: You have Truesight. Another example: when you attack or take the magic action, you also teleport.
• The PHB now has rules to go beyond level 20. Every time you hit some XP threshold, you can choose another Epic Boon (which could take one of your scores to level 30).

Other NEW rules clarifications:

• Heroic Inspiration which lets you re-roll any one die (may be one damage die, but not all damage dice).
• Surprise now gives you disadvantage on your initiative. (Champion, Assassin, and Barbarian are hard to surprise -- they won't have disadvantage on init).
• No school restrictions for Arcane Trickster or Eldrtich Knight.

 

[Horwath]

Yes?

Doing all that prep and risking being noticed just isn't worth it if all you get in the end is just advantage on Initiative.

i mean, I was agreeing with you, success or fail part of ambush should be stealth/preparation, and not initiative roll.
initiative can be a factor on round 2, if you will get double strike in or not.

 

[Snute]

The Rune Knight will probably need a rework since it's kinda BA heavy/reliant. And with the updated Second Wind, that's A LOT of BA options to go through.

As someone playing a Rune Knight currently: yeah, you are desperately starved for Bonus Actions and/or Reactions, depending on your choices as is. The new rules look like they will only add to the messed up action economy of this subclass.

 

[Minigiant]

I wish they kept Flex and made it +1 if one handed or +2 damage if two handed.

Simple, not extra thinking, and doesn't invalidate Versatile.

 

[Horwath]

I wish they kept Flex and made it +1 if one handed or +2 damage if two handed.

Simple, not extra thinking, and doesn't invalidate Versatile.

problem with Flex is that is was simply bland, boring and underpowered in the end.

Especially as d8 longsword base damage is too low.
if rapier with finesse option is d8, the longsword with versatile should be base of d10.

Then you can have d8 finesse with Vex train advantage and you can have d12 with no other mechanics. That would be more balanced.

 

[mellored]

I already accounted for that. I assumed 15 combat rounds (three fights of five rounds), one short rest, three fights of five rounds, long rest. In 15 rounds, the BM is essentially guaranteed to land at least four attacks. Hence, there will essentially never be a situation where the BM is somehow not getting 4d8 damage per short rest--the more attacks you make, the more nearly guaranteed it becomes. Since Champions absolutely depend on having more attacks per round in order to get their bonus, there is never a world where the Champion is getting more crits but the BM is not getting in all of her Superiority Dice per rest.

It doesn't matter whether they're happening in every fight or not; I'm averaging across all fights per rest. BMs get a floor of +4d8 damage per rest. I assumed one short rest per day, meaning a total of +8d8. For the Champion to overcome that, even with TWF, they have to have a stupidly high number of extra rounds.

At level 3, yes.

Assuming 15 attacks a day, with a bit of advantage, that's 1 extra crit per day, or 2 crits with a light weapons. Either way it's 2d6 =7 extra.

And assuming 2 extra rounds per day, mostly from initiative, but the occasional movement boost too, that's (2d6+3) * 2 = 20
=27 vs 36 of BM.

But at level 5, you can expect double the crits (14) and double the damage from going first, plus Str boost (22)
= 36 vs the 36 of BM.

So equal at 5.

Perhaps the BM should start with d6 dice. It is a little front loaded.

 

[Scott Christian]

Is the eldritch knight going to be better than everything else?

The Magic 8 Ball predicts - "Absolutely".

 

[Reef]

Is the eldritch knight going to be better than everything else?

The Magic 8 Ball predicts - "Absolutely".

They get proficiency with Magic 8 balls now?!? The power creep is off the chart!

 

[mellored]

100% this.

what is the point of thinking about positioning, cover bonuses for stealth, when you can just lose on initiative roll and get clobbered on the head before starting your ambush.

Then give Stealth advantage on intuitive, and Surprise disadvantage.

You will nearly always go first that way. With just a small chance that things go wrong.

 

[mellored]

I wish they kept Flex and made it +1 if one handed or +2 damage if two handed.

Simple, not extra thinking, and doesn't invalidate Versatile.

Graze is simple extra damage.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

At level 3, yes.

Assuming 15 attacks a day, with a bit of advantage, that's 1 extra crit per day, or 2 crits with a light weapons. Either way it's 2d6 =7 extra.

And assuming 2 extra rounds per day, mostly from initiative, but the occasional movement boost too, that's (2d6+3) * 2 = 20
=27 vs 36 of BM.

But at level 5, you can expect double the crits (14) and double the damage from going first, plus Str boost (22)
= 36 vs the 36 of BM.

So equal at 5.

Perhaps the BM should start with d6 dice. It is a little front loaded.

I'm sorry, what?

Where on earth are you getting FOURTEEN extra crits from a 5% increase in crit chance? Also, no + anything, crits don't add flat damage, they ONLY add dice. So your math is already off from that.

To even get 14 regular crits, you'd need around 14x20 = 280 attacks made per day. Even at 3 attacks/round (from EA + TWF), you're looking at 93.33... rounds of combat per day to get that many. It doesn't happen. Ever.

Also, I'm sorry, you're not justifying this "extra rounds per day from advantage on initiative." I've never--not once--seen someone win initiative and as a result get attacks off that round that someone else couldn't because of their lower initiative. Initiative just means you get to make attacks before the bad guys do. Unless you're outright killing opponents in a single action, such that someone who goes late is deprived of targets (again, something I've never once seen in 5e), I just flat do not accept that you're somehow magically getting extra rounds.