D&D (2024) Check Out The New Map Of D&D's Planes!

Snapped from the Barbarian video.

 

[Kaiyanwang]

So Arcadia is Chaotic because all those laws only exist to constrain the behavior of chaotic individuals who would undermine the system?

Doesn't fly.

In 3e, Carceri has just "Mild-Evil" as planar trait (alongside normal gravity, that weird but cool planar structure and whatnot). For comparison, the Abyss was Mild-Chaos and Mild-Evil, and the Pandemonium was Mild-Chaos. Limbo was Strong Chaos. Hades was Strong Evil.

Edit: and while the idea of imprisoning for misbehaving is Lawful per se, Carceri in many ways is a "storage" of exiles and rebels (chaos alert) with the Demodand not really in control. A bit like the Pandemonium is an asylum with no doctor.

 

[Staffan]

So Arcadia is Chaotic because all those laws only exist to constrain the behavior of chaotic individuals who would undermine the system?

Doesn't fly.

Arcadia's inhabitants like having laws, because they mean they know what to expect. They generally gladly follow them, even if they're inconvenient. They're the kind of people who like having HOAs specifying what color their houses can be.

Carceri's inhabitants are forced to be there. They'd love to be somewhere else causing trouble, but are forcibly kept there. They do not willingly submit to their incarceration, but try to rebel against it. They are Chaotic, and so is their home plane.

 

[M.L. Martin]

Some notes on the evolution of the Great Wheel:

While I don't own any of the OD&D rule books or supplements, a lot of development took place in early issues of The Strategic Review/The Dragon, which I do have access to. (I hunted down the Dragon Archive CD-ROM a few years back.) I'd appreciate if someone with access to Gods, Demi-gods, and Heroes could corroborate or debunk one of my theories based on this evolution--namely, that the Wheel is partially the result of having to shoehorn deific residences from that supplement into Gygax's earlier structure.

First, the earliest version, from The Strategic Review, Vol. 2, Issue 1, which is where Gygax introduced the differentiation of Good and Evil into the Lawful and Chaotic alignments, thus creating the 5-point system used in Holmes and the AD&D Monster Manual:

When researching this article, I found that G, DG, & H is advertised as new in The Dragon #2, thus suggesting that this article predates the supplement.

Second, from DRAGON #8, the first layout of the Great Wheel--but it is not the final form.

From the notes on the following page:

1) Purple, The PRIME MATERIAL
2) Yellow, The POSITIVE MATERIAL PLANE
3) Grey, The NEGATIVE MATERIAL PLANE
4) Lt. Blue The AIR ELEMENTAL PLANE
5) Red The FIRE ELEMENTAL PLANE
6) Green The EARTH ELEMENTAL PLANE
7) Blue The WATER ELEMENTAL PLANE
8) Orange, The ETHEREAL PLANE
9) Lt. Blue, The ASTRAL PLANE
10) Blue, The SEVEN HEAVENS
11) Lt. Blue, The HAPPY HUNTING GROUNDS
12) Blue, The TWIN PARADISES
13) Lt. Blue, OLYMPUS
14) Blue, ELYSIUM
15) Blue/Grey, GLADSHEIM
16) Grey, LIMBO
17) Red/Grey, PANDEMONIUM
18) Red, The 666 LAYERS OF THE ABYSS
19) Lt. Red, TARTERUS
20) Red, HADES
21) Lt. Red, GEHENNA
22) Red, The NINE HELLS
23) Red/Grey, ACHERON
24) Grey, NIRVANA
25) Blue/Grey, ARCADIA

The Lower Planes are pretty well set, but the Upper Planes are in a bit of flux. Elysium retains its position at the Chaotic Good pole from Strategic Review 2, the Paradise from that article has become the Twin Paradises of pure Good, the Happy Hunting Grounds are in the L/NG position, and Olympus is in the N/CG slot. However, there's no mention of the 'shading' of alignments, and the examples of the main text use the 'primary' planes of the earlier article: "Typical higher planes are the Seven Heavens, the Twin Paradises, and Elysium. The plane of ultimate Law is Nirvana, while the plane of ultimate Chaos(entropy) is Limbo. Typical lower planes are the Nine Hells, Hades’ three glooms, and the 666 layers of the Abyss." Hence my hypothesis.

I can't find anything between DRAGON #8 and the AD&D PHB that addresses the development further; does anyone know any other pieces of the puzzle?

 

[MNblockhead]

I like it
Amusing to read through 15 pages of a thread about a lil map — you folks would love Dora the Explorer

Having watched a lot of Dora the Explorer with my kiddos back in the day, this D&D Dad thinks the if I were to stat up Dora's sentient magic map for D&D it would be the most popular magic item since the bag of holding.

 

[Eyes of Nine]

I like it
Amusing to read through 15 pages of a thread about a lil map — you folks would love Dora the Explorer

I have loved fantasy maps ever since probably whichever Oz book had a map of Oz and the Great Desert around it. I have vague recollections from even earlier of taking my kids books and creating roadways all over my room for my various toy vehicles to drive on (they went on books much more smoothly than on the carpet).

I've loved maps all my life, and this one's no different...

 

[Vincent55]

yes well, i have all the Planescape box sets and material and maps of everything so this is like a postcard compared to the national library.

 

[Tonguez]

It's a forest moon, and the domain of Prince Barin.

As soon as I saw the map and the Outlands in the middle my head immediately jumped to Flash Gordon and the realms of Mongo, then I merged that with the Mortal Kombats Outworld

Elysium,Beastlands, and Arborea look too samey and Mount Celestia should the silver sea surrounding it, land.

Elysium, Beastlands and Arborea are pretty much the same, I've always tended to just merge them together anyway, thats not a bad thing - especially if you make them smaller floating landmasses revolving around the central hub

 

[Micah Sweet]

As soon as I saw the map and the Outlands in the middle my head immediately jumped to Flash Gordon and the realms of Mongo, then I merged that with the Mortal Kombats Outworld

Elysium, Beastlands and Arborea are pretty much the same, I've always tended to just merge them together anyway, that not a bad thing - especially if you make them smaller floating landmasses in the revolving around the central hub

I've read about all the planes quite extensively and, for my money, they are definitely not pretty much the same. Where are you getting your information?

 

[Tonguez]

I've read about all the planes quite extensively and, for my money, they are definitely not pretty much the same. Where are you getting your information?

Arborea - 1 vast forest, 2 a towering mountain, 3 a vast river 4 a vast desert 5 settled fields and orchards, celestials, spirits
Beastlands - 1 vast forest, 2 a towering plateau, 3 a vast river (Oceanus) 4 a vast savannah, 5 sentient animals, celestials, spirits
Elysium - 1 vast forest and meadows 2 steep hills and mountains 3 a vast river (Oceanus) 4 a vast swamp and ocean 5 guardinals and other celestials

sure the inhabitants and cultures are different, but the geography is largely interchangeable and easily blends in to each other

 

[Micah Sweet]

Arborea - 1 vast forest, 2 a towering mountain, 3 a vast river 4 a vast desert 5 settled fields and orchards, celestials, spirits
Beastlands - 1 vast forest, 2 a towering plateau, 3 a vast river (Oceanus) 4 a vast savannah, 5 sentient animals, celestials, spirits
Elysium - 1 vast forest and meadows 2 steep hills and mountains 3 a vast river (Oceanus) 4 a vast swamp and ocean 5 guardinals and other celestials

sure the inhabitants and cultures are different, but the geography is largely interchangeable and easily blends in to each other

Is geography the principle factor be concerned about? Feel free to pass on the "It's a map" comments.